00:54:31 <water> have we met?
00:54:54 [NICK] karltk changed nick to: Ghyll
00:54:56 <Ghyll> yes
00:55:00 <water> ah
00:55:10 <water> 600 days until the navy lets me go
00:55:30 <Ghyll> water: how long is your service in total ? three years ?
00:55:36 <water> 6
00:55:45 Ghyll blinks
00:55:47 Ghyll blinks harder
00:55:51 <water> heh
00:56:01 <water> yes, that's required for nuclear tachnicians
00:56:19 <Ghyll> has it been worth it ? 
00:56:37 <water> i've learned most of my higher mathematics and cs while in the navy
00:57:04 <water> in a VERY obtuse way, yes
00:58:10 <Ghyll> are you eligible for any academic degree after your service ?
00:58:51 <water> yep, and i'll have roughly $60k
00:58:51 <water> although the token degree is worth very little
00:59:02 <water> perhaps my 60 credits from college will transfer
00:59:17 <water> (from before the military service)
00:59:40 <Ghyll> how many credits do you earn per semester (normally) ?
00:59:58 <water> 13
01:00:28 <water> i tested out of most of those credits in high school
01:00:46 <Ghyll> ah, so you're really not such an old fart :)
01:00:54 <water> no, i'm still 22
01:01:14 <water> i entered college at 17
01:01:37 <Ghyll> yeah, I've heard that's possible over there.
01:01:50 <water> in several ways
01:02:31 <Ghyll> they don't require that you finished high school before you start, do they ?
01:02:41 <Ghyll> isn't it something about just passing an aptitude test ?
01:02:48 <water> they do
01:03:20 <water> there are tests, but some sort of degree/certification is almost always required
01:03:35 <Ghyll> is that a federal decree, or does it vary across states ?
01:04:08 <water> i don't know, but i'd bet on it being linked to the feds
01:04:23 <Ghyll> anyway, this doesn't really have relevance to tunes...
01:04:29 <water> it's all paperwork to me
01:04:32 <water> right
01:04:35 <Ghyll> did you get to update the docs ?
01:04:46 <water> no, i've been pretty worn out lately
01:05:02 <water> work is taking its toll on me
01:05:14 <Ghyll> probably excessive radiation damage..
01:05:38 <water> gee thanks
01:06:15 <Ghyll> but you shouldn't take my diagnosis as final. I left medschool after one week.
01:08:42 <water> basically, i'm working 7 days a week, roughly 11 hours a day
01:08:59 <water> and busy all of that time
01:09:04 <Ghyll> then a burnout is imminent
01:09:12 <water> most likely
01:09:23 <water> but it's the same for about 400 other people
01:09:24 [QUIT] ink quit: re-boot time!
01:10:30 <water> oh well, i get a week of vacation in about two months (crossing fingers)
01:10:34 [QUIT] MysticOne quit: Life, a brush with the unreal.
01:11:17 <Ghyll> are you sure this isn't a prison camp, you've walked into ?
01:11:30 <water> i'm sure that it *is*
01:11:43 <water> i was sure when i signed up
01:14:13 <Ghyll> then why did you, if you don't mind me asking ?
01:14:23 <water> i do
01:15:15 <Ghyll> ok. 
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18:22:06 <water> re all
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18:59:10 <_carlito_> hey guys
18:59:16 <_carlito_> question for you all
18:59:26 <_carlito_> where would you suggest going for a web host
19:00:21 <_carlito_> hmm....I think everyone is ignoring me...that's not very nice
19:09:19 <water> hey
19:09:30 <water> sorry, we were just away
19:09:33 <_carlito_> that's ok
19:09:42 <_carlito_> any suggestions?
19:09:44 <water> web host for what?
19:09:55 <_carlito_> my site and database
19:10:04 <water> which is for...?
19:10:13 <_carlito_> a company I'm starting
19:10:23 ult smacks his forehead
19:10:26 <_carlito_> lol
19:10:45 <_carlito_> anyways...any suggestions?
19:10:51 <water> no
19:11:04 <_carlito_> alrighty then....who owns tunes.org?
19:11:41 <water> bespin.cx
19:11:49 <water> or bespind.dhs.org
19:11:56 <water> er... s/ind/in/
19:11:58 <_carlito_> hmmm...
19:12:21 <water> now is this company going to do anything remotely related to tunes ideas?
19:12:43 <_carlito_> in the most remote way
19:12:46 <_carlito_> =)
19:12:51 <water> which is?
19:12:54 <_carlito_> but like always I have to go
19:12:58 <water> good
19:13:08 <_carlito_> hey!
19:13:22 <water> unless you have something relevant to say
19:13:43 <_carlito_> bye
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19:14:01 <water> heh i pissed him off
19:14:04 <ult> I'd just like to know how he found this place.
19:14:12 <water> he's been here before
19:14:24 <water> yet another tunes newbie
19:14:26 <ult> Dohwell.
19:14:54 <water> i felt like kicking him
19:15:16 water opens his book on IF logic to do something more tunes-constructive
19:15:34 water goes afk
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19:23:36 water joined #tunes
19:24:15 <water> re
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19:46:52 <water> hey
19:46:57 <water> ltns
20:11:01 water joined #tunes
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21:01:48 <niku> hello all.
21:02:03 <niku> Could anyone give me a hand with gnutella?
21:29:04 <water> sorry, wrong channel
21:29:58 <water> try #linpeople
21:30:37 [TOPIC] water: TUNES: Free Reflective Computing System - http://www.tunes.org
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22:41:41 <sdsd> hello
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23:00:34 <water> re everyone
23:00:42 <water> hello, sdsd
23:06:35 <water> hey eihrul... i've been working on ideas
23:07:01 <water> quantification and cloning are a real pain to have work together in a clean way
23:07:48 <water> at any rate, i'm working through the issues, and whatever results will likely be easy to build on top of your pidgin implementation
23:08:15 <eihrul> ok
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23:09:47 <water> this IF logic stuff is really cool once grokked... it's a shame the writer (Hintikka) sucks
23:11:01 <eihrul> "IF"?
23:11:47 <ult> IF foo THEN bar?
23:11:54 <water> independence-friendly => allows for independence of relationships between any quantifiers that in ordinary logic Must be dependent
23:12:09 <water> iow....
23:12:47 <water> if i say "for all x, there exists y such that..." , then y HAS to depend on x in ordinary first-order logic
23:13:13 <ult> hmm
23:13:23 <ult> not necessarily
23:13:24 <water> which makes y=f(x) where f is a choice function dependent on x
23:13:35 <water> yes necessarily
23:13:36 <ult> for all x, there exists y such that y=2
23:13:46 <water> ah
23:13:59 <water> but then you don't mean the formal logical form :)
23:14:06 <ult> the relationship could be purely coincidental, yet true nevertheless
23:14:09 <water> you mean the INTENT
23:15:01 <water> which is not capturable precisely within first-order logic
23:15:11 <water> not in general, at least
23:15:35 ult nods
23:15:38 <ult> if you say so ;)
23:15:45 <water> heh
23:15:56 <ult> Would that fall under IF perhaps?
23:16:00 <water> yes
23:16:10 <water> the notation for it is like this....
23:16:32 <water> hm what are the ascii symbols for forall and there_exists?
23:16:42 ult has no idea
23:16:44 <water> i mean, what's the common idiom?
23:16:55 <ult> forall and there_exists will do for me =p
23:16:59 <water> damn it, i know sci.math and sci.logic use them
23:17:05 <water> all right
23:17:28 <eihrul> water: wasn't a backwards-e looking sorta thing?
23:17:33 <eihrul> s/a/it a
23:17:49 <water> "forall (x) there_exists (y) / farall (x) ..."
23:17:49 <eihrul> and forall was an upside-down A, iirc
23:17:56 <water> eihrul: duh
23:18:04 <water> that's not what i was asking
23:18:08 <eihrul> you asked :)
23:18:26 <eihrul> well, actually, they're not ascii
23:18:27 <water> no, i asked what people generally used for them in ascii :P
23:18:29 <eihrul> but they're symbols :)
23:19:23 <eihrul> make up your own symbols :P
23:19:36 <eihrul> who needs standards?
23:19:45 <water> groups of people :)
23:20:01 <eihrul> sure, but which group are you communicating with?
23:20:26 <water> *are* is not the question
23:20:34 <water> *could be* is
23:21:22 <eihrul> well, just describe your notation and there's no problem
23:21:41 <water> heh there was a problem for wouter :)
23:22:01 <eihrul> lots of formal notations are confusing anyway :P
23:22:04 <water> people have control-complexes about terms and symbols and notations
23:22:26 <eihrul> and seemingly more meant to look obscure than have any practical, explanatory value
23:22:42 <water> so anyway
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23:54:53 <sdsd> Ax Ex (blonde(x))
23:55:12 <water> blonde, eh? :)
23:55:34 <sdsd> that means all are blonde
23:55:35 <sdsd> brb
23:55:50 <sdsd> i think
23:55:53 <water> in that case, Ax Ey/Ax (blonde(x))
23:55:53 <sdsd> brb
23:57:21 <water> er...
23:57:30 <water> Ax Ey/Ax (blonde(y))
23:58:52 <water> but then what you're trying to model doesn't require "Ex" at all
23:59:34 <sdsd> rite of course
00:08:35 <water> sdsd: have we met?