π Fare/#Tunes is back not for long) 08:30am ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes Merry Christmas to you, Brand! 08:50am ωνω smkl [sami@ppp32.dial-in.verkkotieto.com] has joined #tunes π Fare/#Tunes is away π _QZ/#tunes is GONE ( Auto-Away after 30 mins ) ωνω hcf [nef@escher.sdi.agate.net] has joined #tunes any1 awake? ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) 01:30pm !rice.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT brin.openprojects.net 8005 from ^lilo !jordan.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT brin.openprojects.net 8005 from ^lilo ωνω NetSplit: gerrold.openprojects.net split from forward.openprojects.net [02:32pm] ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [gerrold.openprojects.net] ωνω Netjoined: gerrold.openprojects.net forward.openprojects.net ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #tunes ωνω smkl [sami@ppp32.dial-in.verkkotieto.com] has joined #tunes ωνω NetSplit: gerrold.openprojects.net split from gibson.openprojects.net [02:38pm] ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [gerrold.openprojects.net] ωνω Netjoined: gerrold.openprojects.net gibson.openprojects.net ωνω smkl [sami@ppp32.dial-in.verkkotieto.com] has joined #tunes ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #tunes ωνω NetSplit: hogan.openprojects.net split from gerrold.openprojects.net [03:02pm] ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [hogan.openprojects.net] ωνω Netjoined: hogan.openprojects.net gerrold.openprojects.net ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #tunes ωνω Tril [dem@bespin.ml.org] has joined #TUNES hello 03:50pm hi 04:00pm <_QZ> hola QZ what is a "stepping" wrt celeron chips? is that like a manufacturing batch? gakuk! fare, I want to talk about the junk.script were those cron messages sent to everyone? oops Did you change my crontab line from "junk.script reindex tunes" to "junk.script reindex_tunes"? Did that stop the spamming? I added >/dev/null 2>/dev/null just in case what you did didn't help. yup, afaik did you create a new function reindex_tunes? 04:30pm I thought they only were sent to me wierd, there was a MAILTO=fare statement... the > redirection is redundant: everything is logged to ~tunes/tmp/junk.log Well, I wasn't sure, it could have been still sending spam as far as I knew when i logged on you can remove it if you're sure I will Also, the crontab man page mentions nothing about MAILTO, it probably doesn't support it says stderr will be mailed to the user too bad maybe not the right cron daemon Tril: be sure that non-interactive junk.script jobs are in a LOG statement, like Because you didn't have redirection on the crontab lines you made, I didn't think I needed one reindex_tunes () { LOG reindex tunes } can I type "junk.script LOG reindex tunes"? sure that'd be the same I'm sorry nobody unsubscribed, so I think it's ok :) did you read the introduction message from Laurent Martelli yet? what list is he talking about that had no clear vision, that you may have been on too? maybe QZ's os-list? 04:40pm how about lispos? I don't think he was there do you know him? not personally. Seen a lot of his postings on various lists recently french-speaking free software lists, mostly ok, I self-documented the crontab better... how big is your tunes new-mail folder now? lesson 1 for cooperative development: always document everything in an obvious place 87 messages pending lol do you understand any of Brian's arrow theory? It is mostly meaningless to me.. I admit I haven't read any of it since november, at which time it seemed ethereal to me. it hasn't changed for me. Brian tries to conceptualize things, but he's mostly disconnected (physically and well as mentally) from the rest of the world, which makes his thinking difficult to understand for other people. He reinvents a lot, but there might be originality in what he writes, or at least in his point of view. hehe, I'll now have to watch my words, since the irc is publicly logged :) hmm, I wonder who is lifeless enough to read all of them. 04:50pm some sociologist of the next century, if we are successful? Where would you look for recent news about some international political affair? yahoo they have a headlines section you can register and personalize your own news page via cookies, too (specifying search words to choose which articles will show up) what about something two weeks old? also, any other portal. ...excite,dejanews,aol,msn,hotbot,infoseek,lycos,webcrawler,altavista... ok, thanks <_QZ> man,half-life kicks ass <_QZ> u uys need to get it _QZ ..what's a stepping? <_QZ> thing in intels chips <_QZ> like a revision number that's what I guessed... 05:00pm Yahoo did it for me did you ask your friend how fast newer 300a's can be run? <_QZ> 450 with a few crashes π Fare/#Tunes laughs at intel chips. Either AMD or an Alpha. (moreover, they will share the same motherboards, with next generation K7's) oh, and do NOT get an Alpha manufactured at an intel fab. qz:what kind of fan does he have on those? Tril: is the list cyubernethique ok? cyber-french should be working "cybernethique@tunes.org" the .wilma/ /etc/aliases and /serv/majordom/ seem ok, is there anything else? I made a script /etc/auto-ml to do everything non-wilma related. wilma-ml does the wilma stuff oops, my subscription address for tunes is still @ens.fr !!! You can read the script to see all the things that must be done. But I used auto-ml to create cybernethique, so let me know if the list doesn't work if you're lazy it's easier to manually edit the subscriber list than to send mail to majordomo :) something only root can do... I already went and "fixed" the /serv/majordom/ directory... what was broken? Tril: I've never sent any mail to majordomo, just edited stuff myself... Tril: thanks for root access :) Tril: missing files in /serv/majordom/lists about cyb* took ones from another list and edited... you don't need any files except one, a 0-byte recipient list. It creates the others automatically as needed. 05:10pm oh I'm still alone on cybern* :) I guess I'll have to start attract people or rather not: I actually made those lists to post my own ideas :) π Tril/#TUNES recommends usenet tunes is no more on yahoo :( Should we ask Beholder if he will consider coordinating TUNES? not in the french-speaking one, anyway Beholder? who's that? french-speaking yahoo? if he's proficient, sure why not? Pat Wendorf, coordinator of UniOS. yahoo.fr He seems good at coordinating. And his project is a lot like tunes. I'm all for letting someone else manage the project I'd just like to keep some veto power, as per the charter. btw, is "TUNES" trademarkable? well, the charter recommends there be some sort of "official membership date" or such I guess anything is trademarkable. My fear is it's *already* trademarked by someone, somewhere... also, there are lots of trademark "categories", I believe... 05:20pm Oh, I've finally bought 10BaseT ethernet stuff, with two hubs. I haven't made the holes in the walls, since I haven't bought the stuff needed to layout and hide the cable so this means we will have another dedicated server for tunes? that someone has root on? what was the upload limit again? 125MB/month, or 200MB with an extra fee That might only be a restricted area server... oh, and w/o the extra fee, that's DHCP dynamic IP!!Woo also, the guys are really incompetent they came home, and the cable wasn't really connected to the rest of the world :( now, even when it will be, that'll be 2Mbit for everyone in town... (and Paris is a *big* town) perhaps a bit more due to cacheing and routing, if they are not so incompetent 05:30pm FT huh? no FT is greedy, contempting, but not incompetent wow, you complimented them :) sounds better than USWest oh, well, the result is often the same: they don't care about you the problem with USWest is the shareholders take too much extra profits out and don't reinvest, resulting in sloppy customer service I dunno about FT -- they still live on their former monopoly but if I had money I'd get DSL from them the former public research center CNET, where I now work, is being transformed into a private development center that is different CNET than techweb.com right completely different. Monty Pythong: and now for something completely different. s/g:/:/ indeed I sent mail to Beholder 05:40pm ok the cnet.fr's link to the internet is down. I'm using a for-pay ISP damn FT: they forced us to use crappy WinNT servers for everything. and now, nothing works as should! gotta go π Fare/#Tunes is away (sleep) 05:50pm ωνω Beholder [beholder@ppp-102.m2-2.sub.ican.net] has joined #tunes ωνω SignOff smkl: #TUNES (sleeping ...) Hey Pat! 06:40pm π Fare/#Tunes is back for a minute Hey Tril, how are you tonight Tril: I've just bounced you an error mail from cybernethique... Beholder: behold! oh fine I got my face scratched up by the Atlantic yesterday but I'm recovering :) scratched up? Fare: Will do ;) playing in the surf got in between a wave and its target Tril: did you modify the cybernethics entry since I used it successfully? the cybernethique entry is modelled after it... Tril: Ouch... must be nice, we're building snowmen up here :) I'll be back in Washington state Tuesday, but for now I'm visiting relatives in Florida That'd be a good idea: have relatives in Florida. Now, who in my family could I convince to go live there? oops, I copied files w/o preserving unix acess rights -- so bad for me! BitchX: Auto-ignoring Fare for 10 minutes [MSG flood] I'm working on it already! should be fixed yes ignoring me? :( no, not anymore. Now..Beholder.. I'm glad you think TUNES is organized. But we can use some help. Yes, I came to discuss the mail. How would you like me to help? there should be a perm script to setup all permissions right in bespin's configuration files... 06:50pm just a sec.. Tril: your auto.ml is buggy -- should be /pub/tunes/list/$LIST/$LIST somewhere... Fare: I had it leave out the final dir so the user can choose it. Maybe someone wants to have multiple lists in the same dir? beholder, well, first of all, we don't have someone doing what you do at uniOS for TUNES. and I'm not exactly sure what that is, but I think it has to do with keeping on track, focusing effort ok, cyb*@tunes.org now both work fine! That sounds a little like it. How many members (active/passive) do you have? π Fare/#Tunes e-kisses Tril! Sort of a overall coordinator. Up to now everyone just does what they want. Some have complained it is not making progress. Mainly I a motivated by the similarity between our projects and I'm looking for ways they can help each other. Beholder: 2+epsilon active, a bit less than 100 passive I think that's wrong. We have more active members. At least, they are actively doing things that are helping TUNES. TM Farrelly's meta-translator is under active dev..I consider that active Brian's arrows... I'm writing specs there is a potential for much more many active members than two (say a dozen perhaps), if we can bring something solid as a basis (btw, the oskit looks good) we need someone to keeptrack of stuff that needs to be done How have you currently dealt with disagreement in the project ideals? 07:00pm I consider TMF's development active, but I'm not sure it's TUNES (at least, not yet) also, I'm not sure I count as TUNES myself -- not been doing a lot of it lately yeah,Fare, what are you doing? disagreement? people don't speak up with disagreement hold on Beholder: disagreeing persons just quit the list. Since there's no real code base yet, there's nothing solid to share. What about the idea base, how does everyone share? disagreeing people just wait, because they think we're so smart we can figure anything out. the idea base may be a problem. please explain more what you are talking about really gotta go now -- sleep, plus staying is really expensive :( good night! π Fare/#Tunes is away (sleep) I mean how do your members (all 100) interact with each other. I know you have a mailing list, but other than that, do they get to have input on the way the web page is layed out, or how the project is progressing. What I am trying to underst and is what level of percieved freedom each member has. there are not 100 members. Fare was referring to the subscribers to the list, most of whom are lurkers. I think they watch because tunes is very interesting, but perhaps it is so interesting no one feels they are good enough to contrinbute 07:10pm People work harder when they think it is them that does the project. Everyone wants to say to their friends "Ya I *AM* Tunes" I try to give each member a percieved total freedom with the project. All they don't get is the passwords to the We b page and the mailing list.... if they want something, or think something is important, I take it seriously and change it if necessary. They really can't do it themselves, but I give the impression that When a member is happy, they tend to want to do more. You have ideas and you move them to that direction, never force them though, always a gentle push. see,I don't need that sort of direction. I examined the project, decided what I thought it needewd that I could do, and started doing it. Nobody else seems able to do that, and I don't know how to help them. This is some of what I do, and how I handle situations. I don't know if it would work with Tunes, but it seems to work with UniOS (so far). There are times when I think the system will fall apart into a huge bickering entropy :( Some people will react that way. A few of the UniOS members are very active and want to push everything tword the final goal by doing all they can. Others have to see something they like or dislike and participate on that basis. I get to know most of my members personally also. I e-mail them about things other than the project. and I am in the first category, obviously. I think the other people know they like the project, but have no idea of anything further than that. I find with some people, you have to give them the idea (creative spark) to get them going on doing productive things. It's much easier to just sit there and watch, or put up with what you have already. Project direction gives people a huge i ncentive to get started on the ground floor 07:20pm see, what you are talking about is management. I'm not interested in that kind of stuff. I don't even think I morally agree with what you are talking about. Convincing people to do things??? Why would I want to do that? I hate it when people try to convince me to do anything. which, of course, is probably the problem with the project, because Fare probably feels the same way, (or some different way, but leading to the same result) "The Project", being an entity which from the outside, appears to be a cohesive structure I don't think of it as management or even convincing. I would find it morally wrong if I lied to people also... I find ways within my moral conscious to release the desire in people to do more than they thought they could... there ain't one. And the thing is, Fare and I have no problem with that. But you are doing this because you believe it will help the project to have more people working on it. And so you look for ways in which people would like to help work on it. It's all words, but it comes down to finding what people want, and getting them to express it within the boundary of the project. My talent is in deep conceptual, theoretical research. And I think that's what the project needs most. So I would feel guilty if I tried to get other people to contribute to the project. Because that would mean I would be spending less time contri buting to the project. And I'd be a hypocrite. I believe that the subtle is more powerful than the direct. It'd be better for me to do what I do best, and hope my work would inspire other people to join in, or something. You can if you make it understadable (not that it is now, but always keep it in mind as being very imporant) but what is your motivation for all this? Why do you find what people want, and get them to express it in the project? My motivation is the project goal "A better OS for everyone" I want to make the world a better place (very idealistic). Make it easier for people to use computers and such... and it came down to a better OS YOUR goal is to get the OS done. I see. But why do you feel it is necessary to get others to work toward that goal? I agree with the end dresult of the project. completely. The better OS etc. I can even define the goal more clearly than that (even though I think I could work on defining it more clearly than I can now) 07:30pm You can get very deep into why a new OS is necessary :) It's a near endless question :) don't. Let's just start with it as an assumption. You can tell just by the sheer number of new OS projects. Yes. People know there is a need that has to be filled. I cannot do any of the work alone (lack of technical knowledge, lack of will to do an entire project alone), that is why I try to get new members, and keep the ones I have Well, you have your complementary opposite right here. I have the technical knowledge, and the will to do everything myself. That's why I don't care about new members, in fact I purposefully try not to advertise TUNES in cases where I could, becau se then I'd have to take time to explain everything to the new member, which would distract me from the design work. (no, I don't have ALL the technical knowledge. But I know what knowledge is needed, and how to get it when I need it. Same effect.) Think of yourself as a client/server model. You put stuff out (ideas, code), and others react to it. You don't have to explain unless specifically asked. If you have more members, you can have them explain it to new ones. I know how to get new members. It's easy. But since I don't have any idea what I'd do with them once I had them, I avoid pursuing them. it would be futile I see what you mean... Do the members you have know what they want to/should do? When someone comes into contact with tunes...they either understand instantly what we're trying to do, or it completley goes over their head. 07:40pm After experience of trying to understand, people can get it. hahahaha... you said it again. Members *I* have. I don't like the sound of that. I make the mistake sometimes too... I'm picking on your language. :) I try to avoid saying My members or My project... I know I started it, and I'd like to think I own it, but in reality it would fail on that premise I didn't start TUNES. Fare did. When I think of a project idea, I look very hard for others already doing the same thing, and join them, rahter than doing it myself. I wouldn't want to be duplicating effort No illusions of ownership or direction... thats the ideal So basically I don't understand your question. How do I know who my members are? I assume in your case you went out of teh way to contact each one, find out their interests, ask if they would be willing to contribute to the project, etc.. I never did any of that. ... sorry control of direction. Nope... I started by putting up the page, registering it in the search engines and then I asked if people wanted to particpate in a new OS project in comp.os.misc If your project was different from TUNES, I'd likely try to learn what you are explaining. But your project is the same in every aspect I can see. Except you have different people, different webpage, and you're a lot less far along. I wrote a whole bunch of my own ideas down which sparked intrest from many people who say the page, simple because they were dead right, or dead wrong I don't know what the project is yet... It's just becoming something as we discuss it. I had ideas to start things. 07:50pm all those things were discussed on tunes years ago. We chose the most ambitious route, the most idealistic goals, and the largest set of features. For teh same reasons you state: Most flexibility for the user. If you plan on taking the same route, you will end up in the same place. Assuming both ideas are perfect, or we make the same mistakes... I don't know if either could be likely. :) i don't understand your sentences, "people who say the page, simple bceause they were dead right, or dead wrong", and "I had ideas to start things." i think you meant "see the page" but I still don't get the sentence Sorry... didn't even notice... say = see ... simple=simply "I wrote down a whole bunch of my own ideas which sparked interest from many people who see the page, simply because they were dead right, or dead wrong." I wrote down some ideas to start the project... Been drywalling all day (uggg) ;) Do you mean your ideas were sparked from people whosaw the page? Yes... that's what I was trying to say! :) heh heh heh or you wrote stuff down, then people saw the page, but what does that have to do with dead right / wrong? No, I have my own ideas on perfection, which I posted to the page. People reacted to what I had written. hmm. why did you say "perfection?" oh, so you meant your ideas were dead right, or dead wrong? Or that people thought they were? i geusss you still might not know...:) ωνω hcf [nef@eland.nerd-herd.net] has joined #tunes Perfection, in my definition, is the opposing response to what we have now and complain about. It's either an addition or a change for the better in what we use.... ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) I've had people say my ideas were complete crap, others say that they were exactly what they were thinking/designing for themselves... either way they joined :) let's see how much we agree. Perfect OS ...means perfect for everybody. Which means not just a single OS, but many OSes, or many different widely varying configurations at least. This is a goal that can't be achieved by making tradeoffs, or sacrifices. It acn either be achieved or it can't ωνω hcf [nef@escher.sdi.agate.net] has joined #tunes 08:00pm If you back off from the goal of perfect for everybody, then it's not the same goal what do you think so far? I'd have to agree totally do you have anybody in your project who is pragmatic, and would rather make an OS which isn't perfect for everybody, but instead is just some degree better? (I think so, and I'm guessing it's Pieter) Anything to achieve total flexibiliy. I say it may be impossible in the UniOS philosophy, which may be true huh? Oh... Flexibiliy is the nature of UniOS... has to be. in the "UniOS philosophy web page", you say "it may be impossible." hard to parse. I agree with that. which is why, I think the projects have the same philosophy. We should work together very closely. Pieter is a little more pragmatic, as is Srikant. Not all of us are Idealists. Which is not a bad thing, it gives the project many different view points. So,I think the people at TUNES can help you out a lot. And you can help us just as much I think we scared out all the pragmatists. They either hold silent, or leave. Because we are so harsh on them: we will not make any sacrifices for the goal. Fare and I, that is. I think all the net OS projects could benefit from interaction. I was thinking more of a merger. I try not to be harsh or drive away members, it may be that I am too soft... I still don't understand why you chose to start a separate project, rather than join TUNES. The philosophy are so close. It even hurts my feelings, a little.. Have you offered the same to Brix? what are we doing wrong? Were we not clear enough? did you not know that we were so similar? 1. It's spelled "BRiX" or "brix", NOT "Brix". 2. Nobody is allowed to help on BRiX, until the kernel is released. QZ won't work with anyone. It's his baby. 3. QZ thinks BRiX is a lot like TUNES, but he has yet to convince me of that. I think he d oesn't understand TUNES. I think they are compltely different. 08:10pm 4. I don't believe tunes goals can be achieved by brix implementation methods. I believe you need to change your public image... you need people who know how to deal with people. You didn't have that when I started my own project. We are very similar in ideals, but we worked ourselves out to be that way (by conicidence ). But yes we are open to any project. In fact we would use brix kernel if it suited us, or any other kernel. Open project, can't just mean we have ideas which are public... it has to stand for more. Beholder: We need you. I understand why you didn't say to TUNES, "you need someone like me", but I am saying it now. If I were to become part of your project, I would need to be given some leeway on public relation decisions. Fare and I are willing to do whatever it takes to change the project to your needs. Except for sacrificing our project goals. like what decisions? The kinda stuff you hate: New members, promotion, web page layout... stuff people see... you get plenty of leeway, but we do want to discuss these things first :) I don't mean absolute command, I mean seriously considered input :) basically fare lets me do whatever I want. I just tell him about it and he says ok That sounds resonable. It's the same with all members of UniOS to myself I'd like you to run your ideas by me, and we talk about it. I tried to do that with Fare but often he's too busy so he says "ok, whatever" The only problem I see is the members of UniOS... they ARE UniOS, and as such enjoy the freedom and independance I give them. what is the problem? Some of the UniOS members came specifically to UniOS because they like the idea of the "Infant" project... Tunes is old :) 08:20pm like yourself????? The problem is the freedom of ideas in design... can you guarantee you will let them speak, and not flame them outwardly? Even if they are dead wrong I mean.... nono that's not the problme if people are dead wrong they are more likely to get the silence treatment, because I'm too afraid to tell them they're way off the other problem is people say something, and I respond to it, and suddenly that's the end of the thread. They don't say anything else If I was flaming them, I was't aware of it. I may have flooded them in technobabble, however. and then they were afraid to ask for clarification. but, really, that's just a guess, I don't know. It's also possible peopple just don't have time to converse on the list. That happens... even in ours sometimes Here's what's going on. I have a good idea of the system. How it works. The parts of it. The big picture, and the little pieces. I'm working on the middle, because that's harder. If you see ideas so well, then you must try to define the big picture before you talk about middle things. What is your big picture? did you read my last post to tunes? I think that was it No, I'm not on your list, but I'll check it out anyways, so what I'm saying is the system is fairly well developed but it's not easy to explain. One of the first things I think I would do is improve the page layout :) and then find someone to do a good logo for the project Logo's create permanance... and make it more like a group :) I'm fine with both of those things. Ideas for layouts and logos should be discussed of course. Beholder: whats wrong w/ the layout? 08:30pm besides lack of logo we don't have a layout person. who's going to do it? hcf: you're doing great keep it up :) hcf: I find it would be difficult to navigate for some people. It needs to be simplified, colored, graphiced up, and made more readable... not to insult the original creator, it's just that it could be a little nicer I know lots of things wrong with the logo. err, I mean layout. Tril: Semanics of recursion is your most recent post I think? Warning about the graphics. Fare doesn't like too many graphics. I also don't believe in unnecessary pics. More color, sure. and more than zero graphics is ok. i 3rd that no gfx motion nope: That's the oldest message this month, try the bottom s/no gfx/no gfx unless necessary/ No GFX is fine for me too, but (more) models and diagrams would be nice... More readable is VERY encouraged. I don't know what you mean by simplified. And insult the creator all you want. He insults himself enough. yes! tell me what you want diagrams of.. I am a very graphical person. I'm partial to OS layouts :) I may have not found them yet on your page... I think graphically, that is. I don't make art or anything explanation: Read my msg titled "Reflective architecture", that will explain the OS layout Anything that can be explained with a diagram is nice... it's quick (I actually wrote that for Anders) that msg is right before the one "Two complementary views of the system", whjich is the big picture I mentioned bfore. basically the OS layout needs to dynamically change according to three factors: current tools in use, user's preferences/habits, and hardware architecture. that's what reflection is Tril: http://www2.tunes.org/list/tunes/9812/msg00074.html rite? or so I try to claim in that document :) yes, I'm talking about 73 and 74 I wrote them yesterday 73... I just found it can I go to bed? What time will you be able to talk tomorrow? I'm getting dizzy from the heat ack, it's 79.3 degrees in here I'll be on tomorrow night sometime Tril: why is bespin//pub/tunes/irc/1998.1225 -rw------- ? We can discuss more later... I'll stay here for a little longer 08:40pm It's about -10C outside right here :) hcf... sorry, the log mechanism isn't quite perfected yet, it doesn't changeover each day I built a 18' high snowman today :) I went to Kennedy space center today, then swam at the beach. where are you at? Northern Ontario... Sudbury to be specific I live in Bellingham, Washington but I'm on vacation:) On your laptop? grandfather's computer in Florida they were so nice to fly us down here for the holiday:) Ahh :) That is nice! :) My mom wants to take yet another Disney World holiday... Canadian dollar is waaaay to low right now hcf: file is readable... I'll fix the changeover later thx Well I have to go right now... getting very tired and incoherent... But I will be back later and more often wait, you need an account on my box Why so? you can use it to make modifications to the web pages easily have you used CVS? :) I'm still a little busy at the moment, and I'd have to plan something out... I'd be able to look into it in about 2 weeks :) CVS? Nope what is it? a versioning system for file trees. to allow collaboration on source code, web pages etc. keeps track of changes, who did it, when, etc it's easier to use than it is to learn. I told _qz the commands and he understood it in a few minutes Sounds interesting. What do I need to know to use it? 08:50pm just a couple commands. anyways let's work more on things to do, rather than doing the web page just this insant.. I agree. There is a lot more to work out :) we'll talk more about ideas for now ok, tomorrow then? How do you to feel about UniOS keeping it's name? Yes tomorrow :) nothing needs to be changed for now, I'm excited at the prospect of a merger, but way too tired to say the right things :) hehehehe for a merger i suggest just combining the two names, or using both interchangeably :) UniTUNES? That would be possible, and probably very acceptable. hehehehe UniTunes... hehehehe I like it! :) if you require it, we'd even be willing to change over completely to the UniOS name, although it would be annoying since we have a domain. But we'd have to ask fare I think everyone would get a kick out of that if you posted it :) I was referring more to "UniOS/TUNES" or "TUNES/UniOS" when I said combining the names Beholder: did u hav osdev.com (or was it .org)? but whatever. In my opinion,the name of an os should be the last thing. Or a book. or a program I don't think you need to change your name. You are a much older and more respected project. It would be silly to change it. :) Agreed. Most of the UniOS members agree that UniOS is only the development project name... not the final OS name Actually some even hate the name :) They say it sounds a little too much like Unix OS I don't know how you do it, you say people who hate the project join, and now you say people who hate the name join... you must be cool :) You give a little, you get a lot :) stick that on the page as a motto I don't do anything special, just treat them all with respect, and give them a place to express their ideas. more importantly, you give them a spam-proof place to express their ideas. I express my own as well of course. _QZ won't post to tunes because emails are in the open actually he's probably the only one if all you do for the tunes project is treat everyone with respect, it'll probably be enough :) Some people like their privacy. I can respect that also 09:00pm I notice you have a lot of active members in the mailing list :) That is nice what are you going to say about this to the unios list? or should i (as you suggested before with "UniTUNES"). we could really confuse people :) π hcf/#tunes would like to see more active ppl on #tunes "hi, everyone, I just asked Beholder to take over the TUNES project, we're going to call it UniTUNES, what do you think of that?" π Beholder/#tunes has 14 subscribers with 6 active... not bad ratio HAHAHAHAHAAHH!!!! Flame city! :) 90 subscribers I think if we do a full merger, I'd like to move all my server necessities over to Tunes servers... it just makes sense that way... I can still use the public ones as mirrors though I'm sure it would be much faster than a public one anyways you can move anything you want to my server, I love the feeling of power being a sysadmin anyone know of this fellow: Tony Rubin ? It's better than xoom.com, but I wouldn't say it's ultra-speedy. What do you think of www2's speed, hcf? no Where is the server located... I may have a problem with the internationalness of UniOS (every member is from a different country) it may end up being slower the speed is ok corse, im @ 14.4 We have www.tunes.org in France and www2 in WA,USA slower for the out of contineter's I guess... Ahh Ok thats not too bad then I was worried about the european/asian ones, but one in france is ok hcf: now I see why you 3rded the graphics thing :) Tril: the reason isnt just cos of speed, im a text person Any graphics to be put on the page would be simple, fast, and necessary for clarity or attraction/professionalisim purposes ok here Well I must go now... (for real this time... no really! :) :) I'll chat again soon OK bye:) later ωνω Beholder [beholder@ppp-102.m2-2.sub.ican.net] has left #tunes [] Tril: in case u care, from eland (the host i do most everything from) `ping -c 10 www2.tunes.org` is round-trip min/avg/max = 115.9/183.3/312.6 ms did I tell you about nerd-herd.net's misconfigured mail servers? 09:10pm uhm i dont recall u hav something i can relay to farce? yes. Tell him elk.psouth.net is set as MX for nerd-herd.net, but won't accept messages for it k u going to bed now? i guess reason not to? iv got a thing or 2 for u unless ur too sleepy they can wait ok...bye ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Tril has no reason) 09:20pm ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) ωνω Nater1464 [nate@ppp010.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #tunes ωνω SignOff Nater1464: #TUNES (Leaving)