IRC log started Sat Jan 16 00:00:01 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0116 ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω halyard [unknown@crl3.crl.com] has joined #tunes ωνω halyard [unknown@crl3.crl.com] has left #tunes [Bye] ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes miguel? 04:10am ωνω LinuxUser [root@bjas1-p19.telepac.pt] has joined #tunes HI, all.... I good OS WEEKEND for all !! HI, all.... I good OS WEEKEND for all !! Hi, all...... A good OS weekend for all !! LU: good w.e. for you, too! I have a question.... some one knows how I can read ELF files?? The fast way!! :) using libbfd? libbfd, what is that?? go in emacs, and look for info on BFD if you want something from the command line, try with nm, or objdump whaddya wanna do exactly, anyway? 04:50am I want that my OS will run ELF files, like on Linux!! then copy the linux elf support? But I want to find some code to read elf files!! then rename Linux as "yourOS", and there you are? LU: /usr/src/linux/fs/binfmt_elf.c ? eheheeh, no so fast... that isn't so easy!! else, there's libbfd, and/or libelf metalab:/pub/Linux/ls-lR.gz that file.... you say that is all I can find?? it is all that's needed for linux but if you want to do dyn linking from within the kernel, look for libelf anyway, elf sucks Fare , you know some "to run" code which exec ELF files, something simple?? bfd is part of binutils bfd, it's some program?? RTFM emacs M-x info g bfd something simple to just run ELF files is /usr/src/linux/fs/binfmt_elf.c 05:00am ok, thanks... I will just install the kernel SRC to see that.... 05:10am π LinuxUser/#tunes is away: (Auto-Away after 10 mins) [BX-MsgLog On] ωνω SignOff LinuxUser: #TUNES ([BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-75p1 for the Sony Playstation today!) ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Connection reset by pear) ωνω SignOff ultima_: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω core [core@core.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes ωνω SignOff core: #TUNES (this is *not* the default quit message) -lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all. I'm going to be moving a few servers to take advantage of the new hubs. Please bear with me! !lackey.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT tolkien.openprojects.net 8004 from ^lilo !koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT jordan.openprojects.net 8004 from ^lilo !king.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT brin.openprojects.net 8004 from ^lilo !carter.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT tolkien.openprojects.net 8004 from ^lilo !carter.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT tolkien.openprojects.net 8004 from ^lilo !carter.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT tolkien.openprojects.net 8004 from ^lilo !carter.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT tolkien.openprojects.net 8004 from ^lilo !carter.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT tolkien.openprojects.net 8004 from ^lilo -lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Rest break now, while we consolidate our gains. Thanks for your patience while I tuned the hubs, per my previous announcement. !carter.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT tolkien.openprojects.net 8004 from ^lilo -lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] I think that'll be it for a while. Thanks again for your patience. ωνω NetSplit: moore.openprojects.net split from koontz.openprojects.net [08:55am] ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [moore.openprojects.net] !carter.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT moore.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo ωνω miguel [miguel@tirania.nuclecu.unam.mx] has joined #TUNES ωνω binEng [andman4@dialup57-4-19.swipnet.se] has joined #Tunes ωνω binEng2 [andman4@dialup112-2-13.swipnet.se] has joined #Tunes ωνω SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Ping timeout for binEng[dialup57-4-19.swipnet.se]) ωνω binEng2 is now known as binEng ωνω SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Ping timeout for binEng[dialup112-2-13.swipnet.se]) ωνω stompin [default@128.200.64.236] has joined #tunes ωνω stompin [default@128.200.64.236] has left #tunes [] ωνω GMOL [gmol@h24-64-168-191.mt.wave.shaw.ca] has joined #tunes ωνω GMOL [gmol@h24-64-168-191.mt.wave.shaw.ca] has left #tunes [] ωνω binEng [andman4@dialup159-2-33.swipnet.se] has joined #Tunes ωνω SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω Fare [fare@sweety.via.ecp.fr] has joined #Tunes ωνω hcf [nef@escher.sdi.agate.net] has joined #tunes hcf: gakuk! whats that mean btw? and whers tril? 2) dunno about tril. 1) words mean what you agree them to mean 04:20pm ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[escher.sdi.agate.net]) ωνω hcf [nef@escher.sdi.agate.net] has joined #tunes ωνω Tril [dem@xws022.xtrn03.wwu.edu] has joined #tunes hoy Tril hi hcf, dufrp sent me some IRC summaries.. want 'em to put on an irc page? sure π Fare/#Tunes reads about the PIII and is horrified hcf: I emailed it to you 05:00pm where are you reading about the P3 Is its number the 80886? ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes the We-Fuck-You-86 what happens when they have a PentiumV, do they call it the 81086 π Fare/#Tunes really HATES hardware compatibility does it include software copyright enforcement support? <_QZ> what does the p3 have? _QZ: Some article at slashdot I think loading it now it includes "the customer is a stupid sheep"-enforcement support <_QZ> eh? <_QZ> i know it is bus locked <_QZ> but is that all it is? 05:10pm uh..beholder's email is bouncing <_QZ> p3 has KNI ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (varley.openprojects.net dickson.openprojects.net) <_QZ> another mmx failure ωνω Fare [fare@sweety.via.ecp.fr] has joined #TUNES <_QZ> intel is damn good at picking names <_QZ> katmai new instructions "DIV bug" <_QZ> they should have just licensed 3dnow from amd what about their prestige? Intel has the option of making shit, but not of licensing from AMD. <_QZ> hehe they may also make vapor-hardware, or ultra-hyped stuff (like the MMX) π Fare/#Tunes hates MMX 05:20pm hey qz you can have a brix.tunes.org now :) <_QZ> Tril: why? u wanted brix.org before. now you can have a .org domain :) <_QZ> hehe <_QZ> nah what about whistle.a.few.tunes.org? mp3.tunes.org that could be a good use for our new 13 gig drive.. this could be sweety :) sweety "only" has 2 or 3 GB of mp3's... Fare: What do you mean unlink/relink objects? reify its state/absord the representation the basic mechanisms for reflection or migration state?? I have to learn monads before I can talk about that <_QZ> Fare: u got mp3's on sweety? isn't this absorb/reify done using partial evaluation? monads are simple: consider computation as pure state transformers 05:30pm QZ: not *I* got, since I am not root@sweety Tril: completely indep from pe At the global context , all state is explicit, and all objects are constant; to change the state involves replacing the entire system. yup But you can zoom in your context to some extent, where part of the global context is hidden/implicit, and state only invovles what you choose. that's one problem with monads what oh, well, the problem with monads in pure functional languages is you cannot zoom, and it's all-or-nothing we must do better only that's also the subject of my thesis, so if you know, tell me :) changing contexts is your thesis? uh? zooming? making better monads what is the full description of your thesis? hum http*~fare/Sujet_th.txt Or is your thesis just "Monads Suck! And Here's Why!" no, monads are great. "all or nothing" sucks i.e. the fact of having a one global abstraction level are you mentioning also , multiple directions of zooming, such as one direction(dimension) per aspect of the object? only 171 msg's! <_QZ> Fare: how do i get to these mp3's? :) QZ: you don't: the net.connectivity of sweety was closed for several days because it had too great a traffic, not so long ago QZ: you send money to root so he send it to you over a pack of CDs Fare: ignoring my question? Tril: every "aspect" is an abstract semantics. abstract interpretation? well, the term has a precise meaning, and I'm not sure it's correctly used here :) 05:40pm I use dimension/property/attribute/supertype/predicate (from the other day talking with maneesh about intensional vs extensional models) an abstract interpretation would be the Category "Interpretation" uh? probably not what we mean. no, I mean the term in the Cousot&Cousot meaning something well-known in theoretical CS used everywhere for static analyses of programs not to me only I tend to use the term in ways more general than usually used do you mean denotational semantics? that too abstract interpretation is a term used for taking some denotational semantics and making an approximation of it that fulfills some algebraic properties, whence the name "abstract interpretation" type systems are a special case (or the general case?) make an approximation of it, or an implementation of it within some other "concrete" interpretation? ωνω GMOL [gmol@h24-64-168-191.mt.wave.shaw.ca] has joined #tunes Hi all Ok so do u think I was on the right track with my what I think tunes is? gmol ... did you read the glossary on orthogonal? no I do it now 05:50pm ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Read error to Tril[xws022.xtrn03.wwu.edu]: No route to host) ωνω Tril [dem@xws022.xtrn03.wwu.edu] has joined #tunes an approximation of it that be hopefully computable and terminating, so as to prove properties statically and/or deduce possible optimizations. oh, so you mean a finite implementation. So "approximation" just means that the procedure is aware of the limits of actual machines! usually, "approximation" means that there is a finite model or such, so that the type-inference or otherwise static analyzer terminates I think I understand. I dont know OCAML (someome mnind posting a hello world in it or link to tutorial?) but is the idea that you only implement and use things like inheritance, poly morph etc. when u need to. I hear in in modula u use an ovveride key word when you are not sure of the type a apointer will point too, allowing for optimization. Is this right? What, then, does a typesystem have to do with it? GMOL: the the manuals and tutorials on caml.inria.fr modula-3 has the notion of unsafe modules where you can break type safety ocaml, well, allows you to link-in C code, and you can compile it using unsafe operations (i.e. that don't do implicit bounds-checking or such) hehe.. inline C cool downloaded a good tutorial. not inline -- it's got to be external modules (unless you hack the free software implementation :) ) anyway, gotta go Fare:Sweety was down because it had an MP3 site?? so what did u think of the little thing I wrote regarding Tunes, is this what is in your heads? GMOL: there have been books published about using caml, or sml. However, none tackle the ocaml module system or object system... Tril: at least once Tril: for 3 days i dont understand how typesystems relate to abstract interpretations.. think about it for me GMOL or Fare? that was for fare gmol: uh, what was the title of the message on the list? 06:00pm PLEASE READ What I think Tunes is maneesh? yes? oh! lemme reread it quick Ok uh, 1) we still need a language adapted to our model but we don;t have a model yet ωνω ultima_ [ultima@user-38lc72o.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #tunes 2) right about the abstraction level problem w/ non-reflective systems at least one that is well defined enough to implemnet Fare! Fare; Question, can you define OO for me? =) I have two more weeks to describe the model and submit it to Reflection'99 ultima: you troll! Fare: no im serious Do you have a draft up anywhere? Fare: I got into an arguement about it, and the other guy couldnt even define OO =) Fare: I have 2 months to describe the model for an independent study class. π Fare/#Tunes should really write this "anti-OO FAQ" :) I'll do it right after the Refl'99 article! Tril: uh? independent study class? i'm getting credit to take time to work on writing my model. including peer revierw on the internet. ult: OO has no definition, apart from being a fanatical religious movement of obliteration of computists' minds Maybe once Tunes gets some real momentum, I'll be able to get some credit too... Fare: TOo much emotion in that statement GMOL: I have a draft on bespin:~fare/fare/lambdaND.tex Fare is a draft up anywhere of your paper? GMOL: Your lambda calculus draft? and another article in french as ~fare/fare/Reflexivite.tex Maneesh: you know French? Doh! En francais! Petit peu.. ACK It's part of the candian school system Frencher alert! Fare: Can you fix that abhoration? what's an independent study class? U accidently wrote it in french! Fare: Its a class where your the teacher and student ult: yup, and now I regret it Fare: Translate translate!!! ult: is that an official class, or officious? Fare: Official Fare: it means you don't have a classroom, and you are usually the only one in the class. xalation: A little bit (I hope) there are no emotion-less statements Fare: You basically have a curriculum you gotta learn, you learn it, u get credits ult: oh, ok instead of an instructor, you have a mentor who makes sure you are doing work and evaluates it. fare translate it but you can design what you do yourself. Tril: great, then! translate what? the papers! fix them! quick! oh, well, I'll first finish lambdaND.tex, which I'd like to submit to Reflection'99 I *really* gotta go. Bye! translate it though π Fare/#Tunes is away (sleep) K bye...I go to ωνω GMOL [gmol@h24-64-168-191.mt.wave.shaw.ca] has left #tunes [] ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Connection reset by pear) so i can read it i know English, Spanish, and C DANGIT! fare ur kinda useless ;) ultima_: I put review.tunes.org in the DNS, but didnt set up the web server yet. any progress? 06:10pm Tril no not yet cus i dont have any human slaves how about yourself? butbut I got UltOS to work on! =) =) 06:20pm I'm going to log off no reason to use the phone line ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (working on Member subprojects) 06:30pm ωνω Onoo-Q [onooq@dialup-28226.dialup.ptt.ru] has joined #tunes ωνω Onoo-Q is now known as malc eh, hello? too bad ωνω SignOff malc: #TUNES (Read error to malc[dialup-28226.dialup.ptt.ru]: Connection reset by peer) 06:40pm ωνω Fare [fare@sweety.via.ecp.fr] has joined #Tunes π Fare/#Tunes is back but not for long π _QZ/#tunes is GONE ( mcdonalds ) ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Back to the Tunes OS project -- /whowas Fare) ωνω SignOff ultima_: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω Tril [dem@bespin.ml.org] has joined #TUNES <_QZ> hmm mp3.com sucks ωνω Tril has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: http://projects.tunes.org/ - does nothing, but shows off tril's cgi skills Why cuz they got lots of dough and you don't? <_QZ> they have shit music <_QZ> they have nothing that could sell in any music store <_QZ> radio stations wouldnt even play this shit I haven't been there, although they have a good list of MP3 cd players. I mean I haven't looked at any of their music, just the list of hardware being made that plays mp3s <_QZ> they arent a warez site <_QZ> they only have mp3's for garage artists I know and serious artists, if they tell their distribution contract to go to hell I would 10:00pm <_QZ> haha musicians who don't want to get rich care about music more. Why should I try to write songs that EVERYONE LIKES? <_QZ> oh ya Trying to make music for the general population results in a very different kind of music than if you write music that you think is good. don't you think <_QZ> Dog Diarrhea Dog Diarrhea Dog Diarrhea Dog Diarrhea Dog Diarrhea <_QZ> over and over for a few minutes <_QZ> that is quality music :) <_QZ> or how about "Mikey Likes to Shit <_QZ> thats another quality song <_QZ> these ppl publish on mp3.com cuz no one will pay for their shit <_QZ> "a man crashed his <_QZ> car when fifty newly-purchased pagers all went <_QZ> off at once." <_QZ> HAHAHA well maybe. but some free mp3 sites must have ratings or reviews or something. eventually the good bands will be widely known. it's just like the web, if everyone can publish (music or web pages), you get lots of crap compared to the amount of good stuff. but they are also subject to flame mail ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Tril has no reason) 10:10pm ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) [msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0117 IRC log ended Sun Jan 17 00:00:01 1999