IRC log started Mon Apr 26 00:00:00 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0426 -:- Connection closed from king.openprojects.net: Success -:- Use /Server to connect to a server -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server king.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES -:- Your host is king.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 -:- This server was cobbled together Sat Jan 23 1999 at 21 33:38 EST -:- king.openprojects.net u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(3)] 1% -:- [global users on irc(119)] 40% -:- [invisible users on irc(181)] 60% -:- [ircops on irc(16)] 5% -:- [total users on irc(300)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(35)] (avg. 8 users per server) -:- [total channels created(76)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !king.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 4 (3 clients) -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.cx " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.cx] has joined #tunes -:- Topic for #TUNES: Millenia Year Application Software System -- www.qzx.com/myass.txt -:- topic set by ChanServ [Mon Apr 26 08:51:29 1999] -:- [Users(#Tunes:5)] [ TUNES ] [ AlonzoTG ] [@Tril ] [ abi ] [ ^lilo ] -:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 6.678 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES -:- hcf [nef@209.94.146.115] has joined #tunes I have 16% of 50mb free ram! :P 11:40am -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Ping timeout for AlonzoTG[client-151-200-120-32.bellatlantic.net]) !services1.openprojects.net!! PANIC! buffer = :chucker_ PRIVMSG NickServ :ghost chucker metalloid -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-125-215.bellatlantic.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[209.94.146.115]) -:- tcn [tcn@cci-209150250102.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us306.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- ChanServ has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Millenia Year Application Software System -- www.qzx.com/myass.txt -lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Apologies folks....still working out some issues with services, you might have to reenter your password !doogie:*! as long as services doesn't kill my mother, I am happy. -lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Just to recap, apologies for the inconvenience. Services terminated unexpectedly, when it restarted some users were caught. !NickServ:*! lilo used GETPASS on smaug_ * Tril/#TUNES is back from the dead. Gone 22 hrs 41 min 32 secs >>> Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] requested PING 925163769 748979 from #TUNES -:- Tril has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: http://tunes.org - Reflective Computing | http://tunes.org/papers/Arrow/ - Brian's Arrow System | http://tunes.org/~dem/tunes/Specifications.html - Tril's Specs -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- tcn [tcn@cci-209150250116.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes hey Tril hello! get my email? yes I see it now what's the diff between a type and a relation a relation is more vague :) types are specifically , isomorphic to predicates, which are unary relations. But you can also think of them as a binary relation between the type, and the object that is a member of it. I'm thinking of a binary relation between two objects So I don't see where the incompatibility is, they are the same thing. Binary relations between two objects are given by functions. That's why i dont have just types, there are also functions. then who needs types? A function is a (special kind of) relation, and each element in a relation is from a given type. 04:20pm (each position in the relation is a given type.) types are to identify groups of objects that are similar in some respect. I'm not sure that's the object system's job For the purpose of, if you are interested in that respect, and not others, you can replace an object with any other object in the type corresponding to that respect. I don't know what an object system is. I'm trying to build a system that allows connecting objects together and definign rules that say what objects may and may not be combined together. That's the role of a type system. Have you given much thought to *using* your system? How would you write a text adventure, for example? sure. first decide what the types are monsters and players would be one type, (actors) items to pick up and use are another locations that are connected together to form a map are probably the last type you need. and of course these types aren't just single types, but hierarchies of related types. then after you have all your types, define all the functions for each one, that is everything that you can do to objects of that type. So a type is the same as a class in C++? then you need to do other stuff, which I am not sure of yet, such as making sure functions can only be invoked where you want them to be, setting up threads of evaluation (the parallelism and synchronization of the events in the game), user interfaces (are a long way off), networking (fun!).. no, it's not like a class in C++. In OO langauges, a class defines an implementation AND an interface to the implementation. That's a bad practice, since interface (Type) should be separated from implementation (code). -:- _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes "good" languages have both class and type mechanisms, which are separated, and you can define the relationships between classes and types. umm, can't you do without classes? <_QZ> no think about it If we're making something like C++ or CLOS, why don't I just use gcc or cmucl instead? <_QZ> a class is a structure of types + functions 04:30pm ignore _QZ. yes, there are languages without classes, only types, and they work just fine. what's ML? <_QZ> but languages with classes are better regarding tunes, we want to use a declarative style for everything, such that the code part is actually automatically generated (ideally). does ML have classes? ML is just a functional language. You would have to look at CMUCL they probably have bunches of OOP added on it. I don't know it well enough to answer. CL is pretty sloppy, worse than C++ err, I didnt mean cmucl, I meant OCAML hehe common lisp standard includes CLOS. CL looks overwhelming, kinda like ADA. brb ok allright, ocaml has types and classes but I haven't tried ocaml's OO capabilities; for all I know, they might suck. >>> tcn [tcn@cci-209150250116.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 925170044 421431 from #tunes ? 04:40pm oh well.. I'll work on your typesystem some more.. I see where it could have advantages yes, bespin.cx is having some problems. I'm changing the canonical name of my machine to bespin.dhs.org. gotta run.. ok bye -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason) 04:50pm -:- Connection closed from king.openprojects.net: Success -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server king.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES -:- Your host is king.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 -:- This server was cobbled together Sat Jan 23 1999 at 21 33:38 EST -:- king.openprojects.net u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(6)] 2% -:- [global users on irc(121)] 39% -:- [invisible users on irc(189)] 61% -:- [ircops on irc(13)] 4% -:- [total users on irc(310)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(34)] (avg. 9 users per server) -:- [total channels created(80)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !king.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 8 (7 clients) -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.cx " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.cx] has joined #tunes -:- [Users(#Tunes:5)] [ TUNES ] [ _QZ ] [@Tril ] [ abi ] [ ^lilo ] -:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 7.020 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES [msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0427 IRC log ended Tue Apr 27 00:00:00 1999