IRC log started Thu May 6 00:00:01 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0506 -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.cx] by bear.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.cx]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Use /Server to connect to a server -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server clarke.openprojects.net [refnum 2] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES -:- Your host is clarke.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 13 24:47 EDT -:- clarke.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(13)] 5% -:- [global users on irc(101)] 35% -:- [invisible users on irc(184)] 65% -:- [ircops on irc(12)] 4% -:- [total users on irc(285)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(33)] (avg. 8 users per server) -:- [total channels created(71)] (avg. 4 users per channel) !clarke.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 19 (18 clients) !clarke.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 2 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr. -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.cx " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.cx] has joined #tunes -:- Topic for #TUNES: TUNES OS : http://www.tunes.org -:- topic set by _QZ [Mon May 3 21:26:17 1999] -:- [Users(#Tunes:4)] [ TUNES ] [ Tikiman ] [@Tril ] [ abi ] -:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 6.595 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES -:- NetSplit: koontz.openprojects.net split from mccaffrey.openprojects.net [05:37am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [koontz.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: koontz.openprojects.net mccaffrey.openprojects.net -:- Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #Tunes -:- Tikiman [tikiman@mcrigal2.student.Princeton.EDU] has joined #Tunes -:- ServerMode/#Tunes [+o Tril] by varley.openprojects.net -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-120-238.bellatlantic.net] has joined #tunes -:- Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes * AlonzoTG/#tunes greets "Salutations Fare!" :-) hiya! -:- mode/#Tunes [+o Fare] by ChanServ -:- mode/#Tunes [+b *!*lonzo@*bellatlantic.net] by Fare -:- AlonzoTG was kicked off #Tunes by Fare (remove that auto-greeter!) -:- mode/#Tunes [-b *!*lonzo@*bellatlantic.net] by Fare -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-120-238.bellatlantic.net] has joined #Tunes 08:00am wassup? nuttin.. discussing SMP in the F-cpu channel befoe SMP, get something working. Anything! Even a MISC! A MISC would get you working in no time! Then you can add features and/or revamp parts or all of it but GO MISC okay if you want to, please suggest an instruction set! :) the one from the PSC-1000 is an example or the one from the F21 (except it oughta be extended to 32/33 bit instead of 20/21) the extra 2 bits allow for immediate values and/or jump/call instructions alternatively, have a 6- or 8- bit instruction set instead of a 5- bit instruction set how about a word based instruction set... todays instruction sets are like chineese/japanese pictograms... with hundreds of symbols... nope. with a 5 to 8 bit IS you can pack 4 to 6 instructions per word how about a system with 16 letters... which makes your computer faster despite lack of cache that don't do anything till words are formed... 16 is possible, but then your instructions go *too* simple and you lose making words from letters means a complicated instruction decode unit 08:10am 5 to 8 bit instructions means you decode unit is *very* simple okay... hmmz... thinking... just a random idea. :) now, maybe there can be a MISC subset and a CISC subset in the decoder but then, you might be better off with coprocessors yes... We are in dire need of an instruction set so any proposal you can make would be a tremendous contribution. the CAML-light bytecode could be a starting point :) but it is not quite MISC okay get a list of links and either mail me or the list. :) for misc, si Review/OSes.html#MISC 08:20am for the ShBoom, see http://www.ptsc.com hum, brb * Fare/#Tunes is away * Fare/#Tunes is back 08:30am * Fare/#Tunes will talk at a conference in Nancy where lots of gurus in Algorithmic Information Theory will be present! YAHOOOOOO!!! -:- NetSplit: sterling.openprojects.net split from clarke.openprojects.net [10:38am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [sterling.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: sterling.openprojects.net clarke.openprojects.net -:- Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #Tunes -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-120-238.bellatlantic.net] has joined #Tunes -:- ruiner [blah@ppp072.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #Tunes -:- Tikiman [tikiman@mcrigal2.student.Princeton.EDU] has joined #Tunes -:- ServerMode/#Tunes [+oo Fare Tril] by sterling.openprojects.net -:- Netjoined: lucas.openprojects.net koontz.openprojects.net -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-120-238.bellatlantic.net] has joined #Tunes -:- NetSplit: sterling.openprojects.net split from clarke.openprojects.net [10:52am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [sterling.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: sterling.openprojects.net clarke.openprojects.net -:- Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #Tunes -:- Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-120-238.bellatlantic.net] has joined #Tunes -:- Tikiman [tikiman@mcrigal2.student.Princeton.EDU] has joined #Tunes -:- ruiner [blah@ppp072.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #Tunes -:- ServerMode/#Tunes [+oo Tril Fare] by sterling.openprojects.net -:- NetSplit: sterling.openprojects.net split from clarke.openprojects.net [11:06am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [sterling.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: sterling.openprojects.net clarke.openprojects.net -:- Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #Tunes -:- ruiner [blah@ppp072.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #Tunes -:- Tikiman [tikiman@mcrigal2.student.Princeton.EDU] has joined #Tunes -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-120-238.bellatlantic.net] has joined #Tunes -:- ServerMode/#Tunes [+oo Fare Tril] by koontz.openprojects.net -:- NetSplit: sterling.openprojects.net split from clarke.openprojects.net [11:19am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [sterling.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: sterling.openprojects.net clarke.openprojects.net -:- Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #Tunes -:- Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- Tikiman [tikiman@mcrigal2.student.Princeton.EDU] has joined #Tunes -:- ServerMode/#Tunes [+oo Tril Fare] by sterling.openprojects.net * Tril/#TUNES is back from the dead. Gone 17 hrs 30 min 15 secs -:- ruinernsh [nate@ppp048.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #tunes hi yo -:- ruinernsh is now known as ruiner 12:20pm -:- SignOff ruiner: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ruiner[ppp048.wi.centuryinter.net]) -:- tcn [tcn@cci-209150250121.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes hey, anyone there? -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (guess not) 01:20pm -:- NetSplit: koontz.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [01:21pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [koontz.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: koontz.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #Tunes -:- Tikiman [tikiman@mcrigal2.student.Princeton.EDU] has joined #Tunes -:- ServerMode/#Tunes [+oo Fare Tril] by koontz.openprojects.net !netgod:*! geez the net sux today -:- tcn [tcn@cci-209150250121.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason) -:- ruiner [nate@ppp301.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #tunes -lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Hogan (bristol.uk.eu.opirc.nu) has been experiencing hard drive problems and we hope it will be back up soon. -:- carlitoJK [sabanmr@137.28.138.9] has joined #tunes what's up ruiner skip that last e-mail. 02:20pm ruiner- I got to go so. I was just making sure I could get here. Talk to you later. bye -:- carlitoJK [sabanmr@137.28.138.9] has left #tunes [] 02:30pm * Tril/#TUNES is away: (afk... see http://www.tunes.org/~dem/tunes/tunes.lsp) [BX-MsgLog Off] -:- SignOff ruiner: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ruiner[ppp301.wi.centuryinter.net]) -:- ruiner [blah@ppp350.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #tunes -:- ruiner has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Ever notice how fast and stable windows is?....me neither -:- SignOff ruiner: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ruiner[ppp350.wi.centuryinter.net]) !lu.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT xing.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-126-203.bellatlantic.net] has joined #tunes -:- tcn [tcn@cci-209150250092.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes AlonzoTG: are you a bot? abi: are you a bot? tcn: no idea abi, seen Fare Fare was last seen saying something on IRC Thu May 6 09:43:29 1999 abi, seen tmf abi, seen s720 om * AlonzoTG/#tunes bot :] that f-cpu looks hopeless all we need is another x86 clone 03:50pm * AlonzoTG/#tunes wants an Alpha clone.. -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (..) -:- ruiner [blah@ppp341.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #tunes * AlonzoTG/#tunes greets "Salutations ruiner!" :-) greetings bbl....gonna go home I wanna talk to you though -:- SignOff ruiner: #TUNES (Leaving) 04:40pm -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us317.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- ruiner [nate@ppp138.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #tunes * AlonzoTG/#tunes greets "Salutations ruiner!" :-) greetings again alonzo om should I be considering how the gui is going to be while I'm designing a kernel? consider whatever you like whenever you like but try to keep them seperate. :) that's my philOSophy 05:30pm hmmmmmm what applications are necessary for the os to gain widespread support/use? seems like the focus is web based apps now grrrrrr Yes. The problem is to make sure your OS can evolve... I am using windoze3.11 It is powerfull but it is straining at new applications. What your OS should be is flexable enough to work in many situations... People shift OSes whenever the one they have isn't doing it for them... so what you do is collect users by suiting the needs of those who use it... then during the normal shuffeling people come to it but find no reason *NOT* to use your OS. So thats how to approach it. :) om 05:40pm hmmmmmm I'm not sure I believe that people shift os's when the hype built up over a new one convinces them that their current one is obsolete not me :P I still use 3.11 I only shift when I hafto.. :P * AlonzoTG/#tunes doesn't listen to hype I'd still be using dos if it weren't for games I like games too I just can't play them anymore :((( I tried to get LiNuKs to werk for me but I kouldn't So Eeeze of use and simplicity of dezine are paramount... talk!!!!! 05:50pm * AlonzoTG/#tunes smashes ruiner with an iron mace soory doing homework :\ suppose I was going to make it so that it was a gui based os ie....you couldn't go command prompt like macs are twisting our guts, melt our spines to jelly kommand line is devine I use it every day! mine would be inside the gui =\ Lameus maximus! it'd be sweet, trust me MUST MUST support everything from toggle switches to cybernetics... =\ good is the thing that you favor evil is your sour flavor 06:00pm talk!!!! * ruiner/#tunes smashes Alonzo with an old dumbterminal hmm disease disease has jaded me I will break you inside out I need a team to do wutL help me wut are u trying to do? I won't need them too much until we get into making apps I need one graphic artist 4 wut? I need a couple other programmers.....we can check up on each other's code "why didn't you do it this way instead?" hmm why, what are you trying to do? I won't need an artist until we hit gui development =\ my os won't neccessarially have a GUI... mine demands it though command line window will be the fastest way to do stuff suckey have you studied the internal structure of this? not really but command line is always faster I have always always always I know how to get things done! I was thinking of a 3D VR user interface.. =) kinda like mine...... mine was based on layers though....not actual 3d mine will be full VR I think the best way to get a lot of users is to fill a niche How do you intend to store your immages and grafikal stuff? hmm well then you only attrackt that niche.. graphic art, music, video, something like that to start out you only attract that niche hmmz word spreads though maybes I think I'd try to fill the music niche hmm linux already does that. I don't see very many good audio progs for windows or linux hmm anyway... 06:10pm send a copy on cd to c/net and one to zdnet get a link put up on some popular web sites...like slashdot..... freashmeat! ;) heh heh mee too but I need kode first.. hit up some game companies to port heh or try to snag some public domain games nah... but you don't understand the structure of the system! of your system? I just tought you filesystems last night! bah! I understood fat tables oh vell anyway... you'll need me to hack any kind of kernel! =P and I have yet to write the specification to mine.. :((( I was thinking.... the way you were talking bout last night.....where its a multidimensional array for a file system... is that on disk only, or do you load that into a ramdisk? the most significant array structure I mean and I meant ram, not ramdisk early versions of DOS stored FAT in memory. I suppose it'd be pretty pointless to just load up part of it into memory so what do you want to do for the core of your system? what do you mean? Do you intend to support multiuser? oh, yes Hey, I know how to do it! =) I was wondering how you could set up a file system so that it wouldn't fragment and I was thinking....that if you had the base of the system in the middle of a partition fragmentation is inevitable.. :((( you could keep things from being fragmented by keeping all the files in a directory together but you can minimize it... maybe... 06:20pm I was thinking along those lines... and and moving whole directories to create space for new files but that would suck....so then I thought... what if you kept the most frequently added to directories near the outer edges of the drive...while the ones that have hardly any changes are in the middle in mine I was actually thinking of just saying screw it, and having a defrag util like a log structured file system? you need one! kinda what if you defragged every time you booted up? But how will it be supported by the OS What will the core of your OS look like? nah, too slooo only when its really fragmented I used to be able to defrag my drive in dos in less time that it takes to boot to linux on this computer most osses do a fscheck after an abnormal shutdown.. :) I was originally thinking that my niche could be the programming community.... keep the restrictions on the programmer as low as possible hum I don't want something like NT that won't allow direct hardware access that is a must. what is a must? all hardware acces MUST go through the driver!!! the dual of a may humming? mine will have dynamic loading/unloading of drivers the programmer can write his own driver if he finds the current one too limited or buggy for his purposes that is okay so long as it is safe his or her....sorry look at directX won't let you do crap and we don't have a situation as in 'doze 84 where anything can take the system down by toggeling the reset pin... WITH GOOD REASON!!!!! bah! 06:30pm =\ ok. let you flame each other. I'll count the points. lol that pissed me off so much.....couldn't map multiple functions to a single button on the joystick in jedi knight because directx didn't support it have a metafunction... =P I'd like to be able to force pull, grip, and destruction all at once.....but noooooooo hehe never plaid that (No Doze) ruiner: just because the MS driver is ill designed doesn't mean there shouldn't be a driver... trust me....it'd be awesome I miss the days of dos where everybody wrote their own soundcard and midi support that sucked BAD!!!! better to have a common API, more efficient safer more powerfull CHEAPER TO DEVELOP!!!! what are you talking about?! I loved meddling with the config files and updating drivers and stuff programmers loved windoze... MEE TOOO!!! but I've looked over the next hill and I like what I see there better! :) Lets bring a CRAY into the conversation... I always knew that if something wasn't working, it was because of one of two files hehe autoexec.bat or config.sys * AlonzoTG/#tunes is god of config.sys! bah! lol I put in a line in my friend's autoexec.bat that said echo Vaporighu virus activated he freaked....it was awesome hehe Anyway... What's your favorite DOS game? hmmmm....... quake or warcraft 2 and yes, both are dos games Warcraft... ran in dos protected mode How do you configure sound in that game? geez.....I forget I haven't toyed with that forever Okay lets say that you run the config and get things working... Now someone gives you a CRAY 6.... ultima 6 It has a TERABYTE of online storage... and since its running over the net, its slow as all hell especially considering what they had back in the dos days And you and fare are sitting at seperate, multimedia terminals... what's the point of all that? How do you configure the game to run on your terminal? if you can configure a puter, fine. I also want to bring back the bbs....they've been dying out the game won't run because the driver is too limited. Now, go meta, and write a proggie that can do thar task automatically hehe 06:40pm You NEED a central driver... mind you, that's the idea behind a common API evil! now if the program was written to locate and use whatever driver is provided by the system! Eggzacktlie! even though there are better ways: having a common meta-API and an optimizer that is what is NEEDED!!!! yes that is good! now see.....mine will give the option to use the one provided, or one of their own making I don't really know what you mean by a meta API but I like the idea =\ -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-126-203.bellatlantic.net] has left #tunes [] Rule 1: first, do it Rule 2: once you did something, go meta, and write a program to do it Rule 3: apply Rule 2 recursively cuz I'm an old fool from the old school Rule 4: don't abuse rule 3 ye old schoole is good, as a basis to go further it is bad, as a place to stay forever bah! heh heh could you tell I was blowing smoke out my ass? -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-126-203.bellatlantic.net] has joined #tunes that's the difference between a conservative and a liberal (US: libertarian) * AlonzoTG/#tunes slaps ruiner around a bit with a large trout lol poor trout! * Fare/#Tunes calls the SPA yeah, you'll never get the smell off of it now *sigh* the system you describe is basically nothing but another winblowze 78... as long as it is not ENIAC OS heh heh (hum the word "OS" wasn't coined yet...) eniac didn't have an OS... reccommend a good book on file systems? everything has an OS hmmz... dunno I mite have a link to one but I'm too lame to go after it... sometimes the OS is pitiful though I really wish we could work togeather but it is clear that you miss some of the key features of a multitasking multiuser OS... 06:50pm ouch depends what you call "an OS" -- see my WNO paper I think you give me too little credit and too much on other things ruiner: show. explain. nah hey....I need some help.....can one of you take a shot at a logic gate? I keep getting different answers every time I try * Fare/#Tunes put his linux laptop down, by restoring memory from disk in an older state than should have :( :( :( its K not and L and D or K and L not and D or K and L and D ruiner: why logic gates? trnsistor-level is more fun ruiner: Chuck Moore does this because my homework is logic gates and he doesn't even make all transistors the same size he takes non-linearity into account, too who is chuck moore? inventer of FORTH and MISC debian sucks -- won't reboot properly I had debian for a while maybe I'll go back to RedHat, after all... plus dpkg -S sucks I wasn't a big fan of dselect and I don't use debian's customization stuff much * Fare/#Tunes hates dselect now debian has a few goodies, too like a much more coherent package repository than RedHat. gotta go bye! -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Back to the Tunes OS project -- /whowas Fare) later * AlonzoTG/#tunes smashes ruiner with an iron mace tell me what you think of these ideas I'll let you in on some of my plans k an audio stream where everything running gets mixed...unless the infoheader states that it should be the only one heard (like if it was running maximized) thought of that too good idea heh heh thanx I haven't the faintest idea how to do anything with video.....so forget that for now 07:00pm I was thinking of having files....sorta like the autoexec.bat and config.sys from dos only they'd be compiled when you were done altering them hmm centralized config: BAD IDEA let me put it this way....compiled startup files nah they are just scripts... alright.... a lot of the rest of the stuff I had planned were diagnostic tools like a constantly updating netstat.....where you can exercise control over the connections like if somebody connected to you on port whatever.....and you didn't have any clue why anybody new would be connecting.....you could disconnect them just some cool utils like that other than that....and a sweet gui w/ built in command line interface....I think I'd just have to kill myself working on memory management and making a killer kernel that's my specialty... I'll never learn unless I do it myself can I ask how old you are? I would make it run on ANYTHING from PDA to CRAY 21 heh heh why do you want to do it yerself? where from? Virginia... to prove to myself I can do it oh yeah.....forgot studied softwarez engineering? nope absolute must for any osmaker!!!! MUST MUST MUST MUST!!!! I don't have much going for me as of right now, except that I"m pretty smart and catch on quick thats cool :) I have been studying OS design for years now. ;) So I know one or two things... -:- _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes I have a really lame final eggzam tomorrow... heh send me your books My favorite is "Operating Systems" by stallings... Software Engineering by Ian Sommerville what order are you going to do all this in? like as soon as i get my bare system done, I'm going to port asm and C over right away so I can work in my os all the time from that point on 07:10pm uh yeah... what do you mean by your bare system? as soon as I get enough over there to manipulate files