IRC log started Tue May 18 00:00:01 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0518 -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by devlin.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Use /Server to connect to a server -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from forward.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is forward.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 (from forward.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Sat Jan 23 1999 at 21 33:38 EST(from forward.openprojects.net) -:- forward.openprojects.net u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(4)] 2% -:- [global users on irc(85)] 35% -:- [invisible users on irc(160)] 65% -:- [ircops on irc(20)] 8% -:- [total users on irc(245)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(34)] (avg. 7 users per server) -:- [total channels created(67)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !forward.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 13 (10 clients) -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- [Users(#Tunes:3)] [ TUNES ] [@Fare ] [ ^lilo ] -:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 7.026 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES -:- Agnes [sadaba@ic-61.arrakis.es] has joined #Tunes -:- Agnes [sadaba@ic-61.arrakis.es] has left #Tunes [] -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from mccaffrey.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is mccaffrey.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from mccaffrey.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 12 02:19 EDT(from mccaffrey.openprojects.net) -:- mccaffrey.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(8)] 3% -:- [global users on irc(89)] 35% -:- [invisible users on irc(166)] 65% -:- [ircops on irc(18)] 7% -:- [total users on irc(255)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(34)] (avg. 7 users per server) -:- [total channels created(69)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !mccaffrey.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 15 (13 clients) !mccaffrey.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 2 ca 1(2) ft 14(14). -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Topic for #TUNES: Crack Babies Unite! -:- topic set by harfcore [Mon May 17 07:53:49 1999] -:- [Users(#Tunes:3)] [ TUNES ] [ abi ] [ Fare ] -:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 7.677 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES -:- billyboof [hatefull@nrwc-sh7-port10.snet.net] has joined #tunes gakuk do we know each other? 07:20am -:- SignOff billyboof: #TUNES (hatefull@antisocial.com) -:- Piruli [p_michael@ctv21225130138.ctv.es] has joined #Tunes -:- Piruli [p_michael@ctv21225130138.ctv.es] has left #Tunes [] -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by mccaffrey.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Use /Server to connect to a server -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from devlin.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is devlin.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 (from devlin.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Sat Jan 23 1999 at 21 33:38 EST(from devlin.openprojects.net) -:- devlin.openprojects.net u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(6)] 2% -:- [global users on irc(102)] 36% -:- [invisible users on irc(183)] 64% -:- [ircops on irc(14)] 5% -:- [total users on irc(285)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(35)] (avg. 8 users per server) -:- [total channels created(69)] (avg. 4 users per channel) !devlin.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 23 (21 clients) -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- [Users(#Tunes:3)] [ TUNES ] [ abi ] [ Fare ] -:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 35.279 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES -:- tcn [tcn@cci-209150250124.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes hey fare hoy hey, I just noticed the topic.. hehe 11:10am what you up to? I just finished college! woohoo! congratulations!!!! What diploma was it? A.S. :) what's A.S.??? associate in science it means I worked hard for 2 years A.A. (associate in arts) would mean I took easy classes for 2 years that's before or after graduation? 2 years of classes, then a 2-year diploma I'm not really thinking about college for awhile Tril's college sounds nice, though * Fare/#Tunes never understood the US college system not that I understand the french system much, either how's France different? 12 years of grade school.. if I were to decide things, every born child would be awarded PhD, so that real study can begin afterwards. 4 years of BS Agreeed :) I would abolish diplomas altogether although not competition for school admission college here is more BS than learning BullShit? yeah not Bachelor of Science (same thing) so you begin at 6, get 12 years of "grade school", 4 years of "bachelor S.", then what? "you can't take this class until you take the prerequisite.. I don't care if you already know it.." then you can get a Masters and a PhD Masters is about 1 year of courses, and a masters thesis what's graduation? end of BS? 11:20am ok, so Masters is like our DEA. most employers look for BS and MS degrees for their "educated" jobs will you be doing MS? or you can quit high school (after 10 years of grade school), and go to a technical school (hands-on, not college) and do more "real work" for a living before I can get an MS, I need a 2 more years just to get a BS. how far are you? DEA? I'm half of my three years into PhD so I finished my DEA 1.5 years ago oh, dinner time. enjoy * Fare/#Tunes is back (dinner) s/back/away/ hehe go pick up your food & eat at the computer :) 11:30am -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[esmeralda.enst.fr]) -:- Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes * Fare/#Tunes is back oh, welcome back so what will you be doing now? and what's graduation? heh friday I get to wear the funny hat & robe, and go collect my diploma :) oh, so *that*'s graduation? I have no idea what it's like.. I didn't graduate from high school do you rent the funny clothes, or do you have to buy them? the IMPORTANT thing about graduation is, you're done with the BS oh, gotta buy 'em, what do you expect in America? the disposable society so ten years later you can say "hey, look, I'm so fat I can't wear my graduation robe anymore" they weren't expensive though haha what school were you at? So, time to move out, make some money, and get to work on OSes do you intend to combine these? oh, it's just broome community college. no, I don't like the idea of making money off software sales software development, maybe.. hardware, that's ok too.. why not? See Cygnus... I've been working on computer architecture as long as I've been doing retro will you go looking for a job next week? I notice Jecel is building computers too yeah. I think he's too much with the Apple kind of "we're designing everything" mindset yup, next week I start looking for jobs/business why not design the chipset, too? everyone must focus on one's particular proficiencies, and try to work with other people for the rest; combining talents instead of combining lack thereof hehe 12:00pm well yeah, if I hire someone to help out, it'll be for business more than technical stuff what'll you do w/ retro? good question There's the possibility that it'll develop into a useful OS... or it might get "recycled" into something else.. maybe parts of it will go into Tunes or something.. I wonder how the name will work out :) the name? the name is liveness; the adjective might be live. Suppose it becomes a 'futuristic' OS, and it's still called Retro.. so what's in a name? the first thing people see usually either that, or they see the screen I have nothing against the name "retro". It's rather cute yeah, I like it too one day when I was wondering what to name it, I was telling a friend about it.. "sounds kinda retro.." he says.. 12:10pm why did he say that? I was talking about Forth, how it was developed in the 70's oh in this country, 70's music is referred to as "retro" at the moment in 10 years it'll be "classic" :) in 20, "oldies" so anyway, I was digressing.. i've been drawing up new computer designs.. massively parallel.. (you or tril mentioned a desire for that sort of thing, on one of the Tunes subprojects) but software is way behind hardware I'm more worried about software progress than about hardware progress I figured I'd work on the hardware as a side project, as part of a business... and when the software is ready for it, start producing the hardware. hardware moves too fast to be a useful hobby there are some concepts I want to work on for the experience :) ther's the f-cpu project, then nonononno I think those people are a little mislead 12:20pm yes, but since they've no code, bootstrap them, and they'll follow Now that I've done some research, I don't think having an "open source" CPU design will help much.. it's not all that hard to design or reverse engineer a CPU. tcn: same can be said about all software If the f-cpu ends up being something other than an Intel clone, I'll be interested.. open source means it can be freely improved it's a moot point e.g. for cpu/compiler cooptimization AMD 'freely improved' on Intel it's NOT moot yeah, if the f-cpu is made, I'll have to get some, maybe improve on it.. I'd definitely port retro (or tunes) to it Now I say it's a moot point, because there's not much to a MISC CPU, and a lot circuits could be compiled automatically onto PGA's, similar to the way machine code is generated. FPGA are not *that* good right.. but they may be the best tradeoff over, say, the next decade for floating point, signal processing, etc, I think dedicated coprocessors should be used for that. anyway, my main focus is software architecture 12:30pm well, you won't be bored :) what's your next move on retro? IDE and persistent storage good have you taken a look at MMURTL or LSDDL? no.. where should I look? abi: mmurtl? i don't know, tcn abi: lsddl? tcn: bugger all, i dunno for mmurtl, look around ftp.cygnus.com:/pub/embedded -:- carlito [sabanmr@137.28.141.18] has joined #tunes hey has anyone seen ruiner? ola hi hey carlito... haven't seen him carlito: puedes tu explicarme porque hay tanto espanoles que vienen a #tunes? hehe fare: no maybe tunes means something funny in spanish I don't think so I told one guy to make a channel on here called #espanol or something if you guys see him, will you tell him to check his e-mail but he was a newbie ah carlito: sure thing thanks I've been trying to get a hold of him for 3 days now thanks again. bye all Fare: any idea where lsddl is? later carlito -:- carlito [sabanmr@137.28.141.18] has left #tunes [] Review/OSes.html I fear lsddl has moved got an archive on my hd, tho what was it, anyway? 12:40pm http://members.tripod.com/~ladsoft/oindex.htm ok, the dynamic linker hmm.. it's not giving me the file 12:50pm uh? ahh, probably because tripod.com is overloaded I'm looking on his friend's page hehe.. Emulators for russian computer RK-86 and bulgarian Pyldin-601 Fare, you know anything about unicode? 01:00pm -:- FareWell [fare@d121.paris-131.cybercable.fr] has joined #tunes hehe ... sirc rules -:- FareWell [fare@d121.paris-131.cybercable.fr] has left #tunes [] 01:10pm hum I'm over talking to the f-cpu folks :) talking? yup.. 01:20pm phone? e-mail? well looks more like ARM than x86 I can deal with this :) 01:30pm oh.. #f-cpu still around, fare? dfgdfg -:- binEng [bineng@dialup95-1-24.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes gakuk, binEng! gakuk, indeed hey * binEng/#tunes bows abi: Are you intelligent? i haven't a clue, bineng Just checking :) hehe 01:50pm abi is an artificially clueless entity abi, what are you? hmmm... i am the little girl borg with a big brain or #tunes' personal little whore or an infoslut or gaklosmontic or flurivostuginuous or xyvarestoplik oh she doesn't have room :) She's got quite a vidiv picture of herself :) s/vidiv/vivid/ I like her gaklosmontic side that's an enlightning feature, yes abi: be gaklosmontic binEng: wassup? umm... just fine, thanks? binEng: got a couple weeks of college (or whatever you call it) left? yah, that's right. these are tough times hehe I just finished Good luck I'm sure you'll need it thanks how did things turn out for you? good grades? I had the good fortune to not get too hard a calculus final I think it turned out allright hang on, I'm headed over to #f-cpu for a bit k 02:00pm back badabada weeeelcome back! there's a german fallen into the Amsterdam canals screaming HILFE, HILFE!! passer by says to him: better had learned swimming instead of German hee hee 02:10pm see ya -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason) -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Aaaaaaarrgghh!!) 02:20pm -:- iepos [iepos@d9.t1-3.tecinfo.com] has joined #TUNES gakuk! gakuk! hey, have you heard of Day&Night (a variant of Life) ? nope what's it? oh... it's like life, but with different rules... in life, it takes 3 neighbors for a birth ... and 2 or 3 for survival... there are hundreds of variants in Day&Night it takes 3,6,7,or 8 for birth 3,4,6,7,8 for survival 02:40pm the interesting part is that dead cells are treated the same way as live cells. cells collect into blobs that sort of wiggle at the edges. there are some pretty interesting spaceships... like the "rocket" which moves at c/2 at a period of 40... c/2 ? takes 2 generations to move one cell. it leaves debris behind that gradually dies out... that's why it is period 40... seriously, i'm almost done playing with cellular automata for now, though ... :-) hmm... i need to get a nice book on computation ... SICP? i think SICP is Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs at http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ i feel left out whenever someone mentions the "halting problem" or NP-completeness... oh, that kind of things. Well, hum. Dunno. Something by R. Smullyan? hmm.... i'll have to check that out sometime... if his technical books are as good as his non-technical books, they must rock really... i've still been thinking about my original plan for implementing TUNES... do you know of any place where I can find information on efficient combinatory logic reduction... ? hum. Maybe start from Haskell.org 02:50pm there are conferences that focus on that see also the Clean language, and a lot of other tihngs really there are also people working on "optimal reduction" altho it's only asymptotically optimal, with some non-negligible constant factor hmmm.... yeah... i need more than a speed increase of 100x or even 10000x of the brute-force method... because the brute-force method would take eons.. i think the brute-force time for the solution of this kind of problem grows exponentially with size... and the TUNES has a pretty big size... i mean the problem of finding TUNES ... oh you just won't find it by brute force yup. i'll have to use magic. the bestest proof systems today require human interaction for complicated proofs you need a metaprogramming system to generate the correct proofs the things you can do are a) write a formal spec b) turn an informal reflective system into a formal one hmmm.... formal spec? do you mean formal spec of the TUNES system ? or of the proof system? both at the same time i'll have to do some studying on proof systems... i never did learn Coq... maybe i'll do that now... 03:00pm -:- _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes i read a pretty nice introductory book on propositional logic, so i might be able to understand it now... coq is good 03:10pm -:- HickServ [Algernon@209.68.229.161] has joined #tunes Gakuk! como estas? muy bien gracies y yu? tu bien que tal? que tal is spansih for whats up 04:00pm i know um heehhe * HickServ/#tunes holds back anyway um how's it going? regular btw well, still haven't finished my speech for tomorrow for what? for complexity of metaprogramming: hints on the expressive power of programming languages where are you giving it? 04:10pm Nancy (east of France) -:- SignOff iepos: #TUNES (iepos) wow how old are you Fare? changes every year, so I never know heh damn i hate to say it but that no-kernel has sparked some good ideas in me does tunes have any working source? 04:20pm yes an no tcn have been working on a low-level infrastructure, retro (available thru cvs) but no usable high-level code available right now i see im looking at all the subprojects right now 04:30pm :( oh well i better design a money making os soon or i won 't go to a nice college hum what do you call "design"? design,code, implement, and market oh well well. tunes is a free software project let's just say i never do very well on intelligence tests oh i see :( why :( ? have you read "open sources" ? a good book, that might convince you -- freely available on the web! heh figures i don't care too much about the money i just need to do something reputable i've had some great kernel ideas man woo hoo wow you got quite a staff on tunes 04:40pm i see you have problems with depression too =| :( -:- Beholder [beholder@ppp-002.m4-1.osh.ican.net] has joined #tunes beholder! Fare! :) your opinion article is ok, but does,'t tell much How is everyone todya? Not supposed to :) absent Ahh I wrote the article to give an introduction to us I guess If I continue, I wil get more specific hello Beholder If you read some of the other articles from that site, it was about as technical as most of them get ;) Hey Hick TUNES has some really godd ideas im serious God ideas? Hell ya. Fare is full of em :) you just need to get them down in code i'd like to help witht he HLL sure! well, everything is to be done! I'm more the UniOS person :) Fare knows much more about Tunes than myself I'd recommend starting with a lisp compiler ok where can i get one? I've never used Lisp before, what's it like? Review/Languages.html#LISP see the retro Notes on CVS RScheme and CMUCL give a lot of implementation hints. OCAML is interesting, too did tunes.org get moved to Tril's server? long ago Just checking.. How long? tell me about semantics in language Fare uh? 04:50pm beholder: at least since beginning of year hick: whaddya wanna me tell you? well you said c lacks it Abuse (game) was done in LISP?! well, the high-level parts of it were i.e. all the monster "AI" and stuff -^lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Expect an unusual evening approximately 3 hours from now. You are likely to see a lot of newbies. Be patient, and don't let your reflexes cause you to assume that problems exist where none may. Thanks! no, I said C lacks a clear and well-defined semantics well i don't exactly know what semantics are ;( Heheh... RPL... you really like thoese HP calcluators :) <_QZ> man i thought the french were weird cuz they have dead cricket spitting contests, but we have morons here that compete to see who can reproduce car alarms with their mouth what's this dead cricket thing??? never heard about it! QZ: You dissin North America? <_QZ> u guys hold contests there we also have idiots in the public school system of the United States HickServ: semantics are the meaning of a language that's why they decided i have to go to regular classes instead of honors or rather, of programs written in that language <_QZ> cuz some girl from the us was good enuf that she got to compete yer contest QZ: you invent twaddles <_QZ> Fare: its true <_QZ> Fare: it was in the news here 05:00pm <_QZ> and i told u about it when i first heard -:- SignOff Beholder: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Beholder[ppp-002.m4-1.osh.ican.net]) if you believe everything that's in the news, you should consult a doctor what's honors vs regular classes??? i gotta go ;( i'll tell you later -:- SignOff HickServ: #TUNES (Leaving) 05:10pm -:- HickServ [Algernon@209.68.229.161] has joined #tunes weeeeee hey fare um tell me basically how the tunes kernel or no-kerenl will work? Fare!!! later ;( -:- SignOff HickServ: #TUNES (weeeeeeee) 05:20pm !ChanServ:*! ^lilo used GETPASS on channel #linuxhelp -:- HickServ [Algernon@209.68.229.46] has joined #tunes hello? 06:30pm <_QZ> hello hey, _QZ finally people talking