IRC log started Wed Jun 30 00:00:01 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0630 -:- Zoot [etudiants@olibrius.univ-paris1.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- SignOff Zoot: #TUNES (changing servers) salut, Zoot! 05:10am -:- binEng [Anders@dialup42-4-46.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes hey yeh did you solve the prob? tril did :) but now I can't write to the cgi-bin dir did he? the thing was that the dir had to have the same user/group as the scrips. duh! you knew that all the time, eh? no. I thought about the permissions for a file, but not for the dir tril said I could 'su tpp' to write to cgi-bin, but that doesn't seem to work... it wants pwd (he said there would be no pwd) how can I find out current user/ and group? 07:10am id -a whoami k oh, I did become tpp :) hehe did you? according to 'id -a' 07:20am -:- HickServ [thrustit@209-68-229-80.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes HS! Fare! i got pretty far on the scanner for my compiler last night (not really) but i need someone to look at two critical loops 07:30am yes? where? on my other computer well, can't help, then im gonna put it on bespin after i chmod the directory :) are you still any good with c? sure chmod? how do I rename a file? you know for directory protection chmod 777 directory etc how do I rename a file? uh i don't know duh :p i think you have to cooy it copy cp filename1 filename2 there must be a move cmd... but cp will do fine for now ok then crap The hello world script worked, but mine don't, even when I replace the original hello world hahaha i wrote hello world in lisp yesterday I don't care for lisp, I want PYTHON! ;) oh so you swing that way i see 07:40am im trying to imagine how fare's full name is pronounced in english mv old new Fahree rene sounds like it's spelled a rideau is like "ridu" rihdaw yeah there we go i can do a cool french accent :) 07:50am damn this code is sorta complicated 08:10am what code? it has been said that code is user-choice. that scanner code scanner? i'll show it to you in a second for my compiler the second is passed oh or is it the second pass? i lied :( I don't believe you anymore did you read the dragon book? well there is this one for-loop that is kinda complicated fare: no beep me when the code is ready ok * Fare/#Tunes is reading the Magic Cauldron huh? do you think it would be safe if i made the fgets() file pointer global? i mean fopen() 08:20am -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES ( ) I said to beep me :( sorry what file pointer? you know like FILE *fptr = fopen(... what program? why program a compiler in C???? use LISP or ML! C is definitely not designed to write compilers well c won't have the overhead C has lots of overhead particularly *conceptual* overhead, and *memory management* overhead use the right language for the right thing i don't know i think i will do it in c then redo it in itself if you're to redo it in itself, there's even less interest in C plus i don't know enough c uh ok, so do it in LISP or ML i mean i don't know enoguh lisp i DO know c that's not a problem -- it means you'll learn more as you go i can just do it in lisp after i've done it in c that'll be a good exercise as you wish 08:30am -:- eStormy [stormy@rain.futuresouth.com] has joined #Tunes HS: you'd gain _a lot_ by making things more modular. I mean _much_ more modular that's typically where closures would help separating the internals of buffer-management from parsing itself, for isntance well purify() really isn't parsing it's not the whole of parsing, but it's a pass (early lexing) yeah i think i could put that buffer stuff in scan() 09:00am otherwise does the code look right to you could i make it more efficient? it's brain-inefficient and the scarce resource is brain, not cpu cycles plus you don't test for errors initializing fptr in scan is evil, too ever heard about object-oriented programming? ;-> about code factoring? C is really bad for all of these indeed well, if I were you, I'd retry in either LISP or FORTH... hmmm :( i've never programmed anything large before i don't see anything wrong with initializing fptr ok, I mean, there's room for progress, but you look motivated what is wrong is modularity you'll need a lot, if you write large things and/or collaborate with others also, your whole program cannot be larger than 511 bytes!!!! yeah it can 512 Text[0] but that buffer conditional makes sure it is always full of fresh source 09:10am should be put in an outside function (possibly inline) ah i see i might make it bigger though like a k what when you reach the actual end of file (within 32 bytes)? im debation on that debating Your whole code is not well-factored :( -:- megaalf [user9079@cga29.tfh-berlin.de] has joined #Tunes -:- megaalf [user9079@cga29.tfh-berlin.de] has left #Tunes [] you should clearly separate byte-fetching from lexing from parsing ok i'm doing that now and run code from init code (and finalization code) * eStormy/#Tunes makes a notation not to submit any code to Fare for critiquing unless he really wants critiquing. * Fare/#Tunes doesn't dare show the code he wrote when he debutted * Fare/#Tunes goes look at it, for the fun * eStormy/#Tunes accidently erased his best work a few years ago. )c: i don't want anyone else to look at my code but a select few i trust fare to be constructive in his critisism water would say "your code plain sucks" well, reading it again, I'm not ashamed of it :) not proud, either HS: your code plain sucks! ;-> :( *cry* * Fare/#Tunes cheers HS up *sniff* *sniff* 09:20am HS: if you're good at math, go get SICP sicp? i guess sicp is Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs at http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ well said, abi! oh abi: good girl :) -:- binEng [Anders@dialup44-4-32.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes bE! hi 09:30am * Fare/#Tunes is backing up stuff on bespin * HickServ/#tunes is coding and fare is critiquing HS: you plain suck! *bad cry* ;-> *sob* -:- binEng_ [Anders@dialup94-1-38.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes Fare: Are you backing up to or from bespin? -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Ping timeout for binEng[dialup44-4-32.swipnet.se]) -:- binEng_ is now known as binEng Fare look at my code again same place? yes 09:40am why mix the fptr init with buffer filling? because they are the same file uh? Fare: what access bits should cgi-bin have? what open it twice? and what's the point of using f- functions if you're managing the buffer manually? that's double buffering! binEng: do the same as other scripts! f- functions? fgets Fare: 'do the same'? what else should i do then? oh, and fgets doesn't put a EOF as last character. It places \0 you should just use fgetc well eventually there will be an EOF and the end of the file i could see how fgetc might be better though and setvbuf if you want to control buffering hey that might be a good idea what's setvbuf? man setvbuf (by default, files are block-buffered) perhaps i should really use fgetc though that way i need no buffer * Fare/#Tunes smiles thankyou fare when you try you're so helpful HS: your compliments plain suck! :| i guess i'll just have to totally rewrite scanner.h though it'll do you good :) indeed Can I change attribs of soft links? excellent question I don't think so, but I may be wrong 09:50am yes you can 'cause the tpp cgi-bin has all bits set, and it says it doesn't access such things how? chmod 755 cgi-bin ? 755 is good it says "drwxr-xr-x 2 tpp" but the other cgi-bin dirs have "drwsr-sr-x". Does it matter? I simply can't change the attribs for the soft link too bad that is one reason it won't run... "file is writable by others: (/var/www/htdocs/cgi-bin/tpp" too bad?? is that all you have to say? retry, now 10:00am does it work? retry what? mu ? what's the format of fgetc? man fgetc bE: what doesn't work? Fare: I can't chmod cgi-bin (the symlink) how come it returns an int (fgetc) shouldn't it return a char? what symlink? * binEng/#tunes slaps HS around with a char Fare: /serv/tpp/cgi-bin HS: RTFM hint: #define EOF (-1) oic well how can i get what it has into a char? int c; char c0; c = fgetc(f) ; if ( c == EOF ) { ... } else { c0 = (char)c ; } (actually (char) is implicit) bE: why would you need this symlink??? it might be that a symlink is always lrwxrwxrwx on ext2... 10:10am Fare: you sure? looks like so grep sys_chmod /usr/src/linux/fs/*.c then I don't understand why it complains about file being reable by others what file? retro retry, I mean who are you talking to, Fare? * Tril/#TUNES is back from the dead. Gone 12 hrs 6 min 30 secs it complains about file being *writable* by others! tril oh I've missed you ;) i sent you mail Tril!!! hi, fare hi tril hello hum hum binEng: use a UNIX editor * binEng/#tunes blushes I actually gave it a thought at first this is just too silly plz remove this from the logs ;) no, it's a hard problem to track down 10:20am uh? * Fare/#Tunes is lost what are you talking about? bin was having trouble because unix interpreters don't like CRLF fare: i have this function void scan(char *pFileName) but if it's gonna be modular and i need to reuse it all i can really do is open a file :\ and instead of saying "please take CRLF out of file" , the shell just refuses to execute a script, since it has a CRLF on the first #! line ah /usr/bin/python[Carriage Return] does not exist guesso obviously python doesn't care about CRLF on any other line, since it works when you "python filename" fare: do you think mabye i should just use fopen() instead in the init code and make no scan() function? hungarian style? Ick. HickServ: use mmap :) Tril: what the hell for? for all file access what's wrong with fopen? are you parsing a file? no use doing your own buffering, or reading single characters at a time how many bytes do you read at once? hah! it works! 1 now do you ever seek backwards in the file, especially by a small amount? no does your program need to compile on machines with no virtual memory? i.e. DOS 16bit? no Tril: how does mmap() work when the filesize isn't a multiple of PAGE_SIZE? fopen is just fine for my purposes reading 1 byte at a time could be slow. mmap() maps the whole file into your virtual memory space, and you can access the file using pointers, it will get paged in as needed. Tril: fgetc is buffered already Fare: round up to the nearest page if you write to the last page, what's the behavior? dunno hum. I hate it to have to write and compile a full program to test such things. Down with C. Long live LISP! (even OCAML has a toplevel) fare you can modify one of my mmap programs, in /users/dem/work/mmap/ err, my one mmap program fare: HickServ: ok, what is the question somebody said the question was how to write bootstrap code that simulates lots of objects should i even bother making a scan() function or just use fopen in the init code? and do you have any suggestion on that, abi? what is scan a function that calls fopen :) a function ;) this sounds like a question about the design of your whole program. but you haven't told us enough why don't i just use fopen in the init code? Hm, the Python cgi module isn't availible on bespin, as it seems. fare knows cause he's seen the code already bin, .....i will install it if it's a debian package hold on k bE: what's its name? /msg dpkg !find stuff.py 10:30am * HickServ/#tunes es esperando para fare behold, cgi.py is in these 2 packages: interpreters/python-net (/usr/lib/python1.5/cgi.py) and mail/mailman (/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/cgi.py) HS: depends how modular you want your code to be well i see no purpose in calling a function that just calls another function HS: you should really get a book on good lisp programming... thansk, i was about to do that.. i'll just do this and you can look at it Fare: oh, that's why /msg dpkg never worked Tril: I made a backup of bespin today and copied it home i never used a ! fare: now listen yound man it won't be rewritten in lisp till it's written in C fare, I moved the cgi-bin directories did you notice? tunes-bin is now cgi-bin/tunes HS: frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn. Tril: are the symlinks necessary? not from apache's point of view fare: why! i never! Fare: symlinks, where? /var/www/htdocs/ fare: hm! Fare: In a user's directory, I put symlinks to /var/www/htdocs/cgi-bin/ so that they can type cd ~/cgi-bin instead of that long ugly thing. (yes, I see ~root/bin/backup or ~fare/tmp/bespin-files for what I backed up) it's not required by anything. just for convenience ah, cgi works now ok bin it's installed no, I mean ls -l /var/www/htdocs/ seems to me the symlinks could be removed... (and whoami, too?) no, those were there for the in-between time when I moved them, and restarted apache (I don't even know if they worked during that time, probably ot) not ok, I'll remove them, then no i did rats! i see a red door and i want it painted black no colors anymore i want them to turn black paint door Could someone mention a reasonable and simple text editor on bespin? i see the girls walk by dressed in their summer clothes pico, jed i have to turn my head until my darkness goes HS: (get life) Tril: thnx Fare: it's called music Tril: what is tunes/wilma_reindex? binEng: jed fare, that is the one that is run by cron, hence is not executable, it should never be run as a CGI fare: pico binEng: or (x)emacs -:- Tril has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: holy wars: jed vs. pico cat > ! echo >> YES! 10:40am they jihad will never end Fare: wilma_reindex looks at the timestamp on listname.MMYY and if it is changed, runs mhonarc and glimpse to create/index MMYY/msgxxxxx.html bah. joe, jemacs and memacs! jed has Python syntax highlightning :) -:- Fare has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: Holy wars: ed vs cat> Oddity: what are jemacs and memacs? joe isn't installed on bespin..if anybody wants it, tell me no more will my green seagule turn a deeper blue i could not forceed this thing happening to you teco! ed is a bitch what advantages do you have with it HS: so is cat> ed is probably a few 10 lines of code copy con i bet he/she used getchar() does that work in unix? cp `tty`? yse it does fare: jemacs is joe with emacs keys, and memacs is an emacs without everything, almost. (Load quickly) emacs takes up too much space i prefer pico emacs is a lisp os with a lousy windowing system and a louse window manager oddity fare uses gnu-server to load emacs fast Fare: does gnu-server work with other prog besides emac tril: Gota try that gnu-server somtime... * Oddity/#tunes uses an IMac keyboard and blames his spelling on it... I launch emacs every other week (when recompiling the kernel or losing batteries) Oddity: and no multiprogramming. Yet it's infinitely better than non-lisp OSes! * Fare/#Tunes admits he launches emacs more often than that: sometimes, X goes wrong. fare: what do i do with fgetc if there is whitespace? while ( iswhitespace(c=fgetc(f)) ) ; -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us103.javanet.com] has joined #tunes hum; gotta check for EOF, too hi hcf lo Tril my private search engine! 10:50am iswhitespace? im writing acompiler i don't have that Fare: Yeah... Too bad so much energy goes into writing applications for Emacs instead of a real lisp os. i shall define it CL lost the celestial mandate when it went proprietary