IRC log started Mon Aug 23 00:00:01 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0823
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12:10am
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* ElGato/#tunes stumbles back into his little academic hideout
<ElGato> hi
<abi> que tal, ElGato
<hcf> hoy ElGato
* hcf/#tunes blinks
* eihrul/#tunes blinks
01:00am
-:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving)
<ElGato> hi
<ElGato> gee #c on efnet sure is a circus
<ElGato> we had this big argument on whether "chick" is sexist
01:20am
<ElGato> i sure wish tunes had some girls
<ElGato> it would add some flavor to the atmosphere in here
<hcf> ElGato: how do u know we dont?
<ElGato> we don't
<ElGato> but of all the people here non have the first names of women
<ElGato> i mean active people in #tunes
<ElGato> not the project in general
<ElGato> of course i don't know you name hcf so i'll just retract my former statements
<ElGato> im tired and im just spouting things off
01:30am
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<ElGato> wb
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
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<ElGato> hcf are you male or female?
<hcf> whys it matter?
<ElGato> i don't know
<ElGato> i just want to make conversation
<ElGato> i won't judge you either way
<hcf> choose a different topic then
<ElGato> damnit, why does everyone have to be so damn touchy about everything
<ElGato> i've offended offended 5 people in the last half hour
<hcf> hows ur lang coming?
<ElGato> slow...im reading the dragon book right now...learning about lexical anylisers
<ElGato> (i butchered that word)
<hcf> analysers
<ElGato> thank you
<hcf> just type lexers instead
<ElGato> ok
<ElGato> im deciding whether to use lex or flex
<ElGato> or write it by hand
01:40am
<hcf> how much of the universe r u gonna re-invent?
<ElGato> what, in the language or the compiler?
<hcf> the tools
<hcf> for making such
<ElGato> yes
<ElGato> that's true
<ElGato> i guess i might use flex
<ElGato> i must continue learning
* fare/#Tunes is back
<ElGato> wb fahree
<ElGato> :D
<fare> EG: if you want to master compilation, don't use C, use OCAML
<fare> and ocamllex, ocamlyacc
<fare> (or camlp4)
<fare> it's just designed for compiler-writing!
<ElGato> well c is gonna be the most standard though
<fare> 1) learn C 2) learn OCAML
<ElGato> it can be compiled on any machine
<fare> these are two different, complementary, activities
<ElGato> and how many people have a ocaml compiler on there box?
<fare> OCAML runs on quite any machine, from m68k to AXP
<fare> Basile ported it to AXP-based Crays
<fare> EG: apt-get install ocaml
<fare> rpm -i ocaml*
<fare> moreover, it compiles out of the box on every machine I tried.
<fare> EG: and of course, if you compile to native code, it will produce a standalone executable
<ElGato> ok...is there an online tutorial on ocaml?
01:50am
<fare> caml.inria.fr
<ElGato> i trust it's in english?
<fare> yup
<fare> although there's a lot of docs in french around, too
<hcf> fare: http://cybercom.net/~rbjones/rbjpub/logic/jrh0100.htm, http://www.abo.fi/~jharriso/
* ElGato/#tunes is struggling with the dragon book
<fare> hcf: thanks
<ElGato> some things are real easy some are harder
<fare> EG: maybe try Appel's "Compiler * in ML"
<fare> (just don't use the "in C" version)
<fare> oh, and subscribe to comp.compilers
<fare> and skim through its archives
<ElGato> i was wondering how i will implement finite state machines in my code for the lexer
<hcf> http://iecc.com/compilers/ has a search
<fare> EG: in C, a big switch;
<ElGato> wouldn't it be more like nested switches?
* hcf/#tunes is away: (afk)
02:00am
<ElGato> fare: well im going to bed
<ElGato> good night
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02:10am
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<water> hey atg
<fare> hey water
<water> sorry about yesterday fare
<water> someday i'll be able to explain what i mean
<fare> that's ok :) I'm getting used to it.
<fare> but I'm lookoing forward to that someday...
<water> i _do_ have ways of formalizing parts of my ideas, but they're nowhere near satisfactory
<water> and my laptop is still in intensive care
<fare> intensive care? ouch!
<fare> disclosed non-satisfactory ideas are better than hidden ideas
<water> yeah, the atapi cd-rom interface is buggy, it seems
<fare> moreover, it's the opportunity to get feedback
<fare> water: is it well-plugged?
<water> but i don't want feedback about this
<fare> perhaps you should
<fare> how else can we help???
<water> i don't even like the feedback i got about the arrow paper
<water> you guys have no clue about what my ideas are for
<fare> if you hide the most important, and show the rest, that'll be difficult..
<water> no, you guys still miss the points about ontologies and epistemics that i've been trying to make
<water> releasing the formalisms will only confuse you more
<fare> open our minds -- give us pointers to papers that will enlighten us
<water> check my home directory on bespin
<fare> the crash course was interesting
<fare> water: what in there?
<water> links.html i think
<water> i remember that i put ontology stuff there anyway
<water> i don't remember if the onto vs epistemics paper is there, though
<water> btw, i'm considering alternative methods for introducing the arrow idea
<fare> Advanced Programming Language is at http://lsi.uniovi.es/~labra/APL.html
<fare> abi: Advanced Programming Language?
<abi> it has been said that Advanced Programming Language is at http://lsi.uniovi.es/~labra/APL.html
<water> that's new to me
03:30am
<fare> that page has stuff on many kinds of semantics; a good starting page
<water> bleh, mine doesn't fit into a language paradigm at al
<fare> if it uses some kind of source text/diagrams meant to denote some kind of meaning, then it fits a language paradigm
<water> but i could make arbitrary ones for those
<fare> so what? arbitrary languages are still languages.
<water> my current one just uses lisp-syntax, without nesting
<water> my squeak code, that is
03:40am
<water> actually, the prolog and lisp implementations within squeak are very helpful for me
03:50am
<water> i have to go soon. anything to add?
05:20am
<fare> "Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away. -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
<water>  a good writer
<water> i wonder what could be taken away from the arrow idea? :)
05:40am
<water> well, i must go to work now. i may be back in about 32 hourse
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06:20am
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<bouncing> anyone awake?
<bouncing> guess not
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08:00am
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<hcf> smkl: http://cybercom.net/~rbjones/rbjpub/logic/jrh0100.htm
<smkl> hmm .. i saw this report just yesterday, when i was searching the paper about reflection and search
<hcf> ok
<smkl> i need to read it
09:10am
<hcf> anything else u looking for?
<smkl> not really
09:20am
<AlonzoTG> om
10:20am
<fare> mu
10:30am
<hcf> se
<fare> me
<hcf> ta
<fare> te
<smkl> minä sinä hän, me te he
<fare> tavo ne marissa ke ti podrasan
10:40am
!lilo:*! Status of hogan: (bristol.uk.opirc.nu) 3 phase power at uwe is currently out.  everything should be back up sometime tomorrow!
!lilo:*! Status of dickson: (ab.ca.opirc.nu) Contact with boren is lost.  Please have him check in at #openprojects when he next returns.
<fare> strive for the lambda nature inside you
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12:00pm
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* ultima/#TUnes mumbles
<fare> yes?
<ultima> la de da. I'm just looking for intelligent conversation, if its to be found.
<_sr> not here
<fare> how can a conversation be intelligent?
02:20pm
<ultima> humdiddlydoo
<ultima> Fare, ever build an 8052-based computer?
<fare> no, and happily so.
<_sr> ultima: are you interested in processor engineering?
<fare> sounds scary. Why not a 68HC11 instead?
<ultima> _sr: Yeah
<fare> or a MuP21?
<ultima> fare: I'm looking at my options...
<ultima> fare: Is it true that the PIC has a horrid instruction set?
<fare> the little I saw of it was enough -- I could not stand more.
<_sr> ultima have you heard about the F-CPU project?
<fare> but that was several years ago
<_sr> fare: do like RISC instruction sets more than CISC?
<ultima> _sr: The open-source CPU design or whatever?
<_sr> yeah
<fare> sr: I like MISC :)
<fare> sr: I don't care RISC vs CISC so much, but I care about space and time efficiency as well as instruction set regularity
<ultima> fare: What about the Merced?
<fare> I don't like it, from what I've seen.
<_sr> hmmm i don't know if i should wait until the Merced is shipped before i spend my money or not
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<fare> if I want a 64-bit machine, I'll take an Alpha -- the fact that it has same mobo as a K7 will make it cheaper!
<ultima> Erm
<_sr> actually, finding individual alphas to purchase is hard
<ultima> K7 mobo isn't just an alpha mobo
<fare> isn't it?
<ultima> Not that I know of.
<fare> sr: might be easier once the K7 is well launched...
<ultima> I believe its -based- on the design of the Alpha mobo, but it is not an Alpha mobo...
<fare> oh
<fare> that'd suck
02:30pm
<fare> after all, the K7 is pin-compat with the AXP
<_sr> fare: do you know where to buy Alpha processors for prices comparable to the $400-$500 for an intel processor?
<fare> I think the differences are that the K7-mobo has full PC compatibility, whereas former AXP mobos didn't
<fare> but the AXP will be pluggable in those mobos, if you fry the right BIOS into it
<ultima> hmm
<ultima> AXP doesn't use a BIOS though
<fare> doesn't it?
<ultima> It's just a chunk of nvram
<_sr> the PAL
<fare> but then, it needs be adapted to the mobo!
02:40pm
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<ElGato> hehehe
<ElGato> #c on efnet is so funny
<fare> is it? how so?
<_sr> so is #asm on efnet
<ElGato> well these people really don't talk about c
<ElGato> just about philosophy and bigotry and are very touchy
<smkl> i got bored to it half year ago
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<ElGato> but i come back every day for some reason
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03:00pm
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<_sr> wb
<ElGato> thanks
<ElGato> i love this place
<ElGato> the only critisism i get is constructive
<fare> EG: you plain suck!
<_sr> well fare did say some nasty things about ElGato's coding style
<ElGato> yes
<ElGato> but he told me what i did wrong
<ElGato> fare: :P
<ElGato> now let's make us an os!
03:10pm
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<fare> hum
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04:30pm
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<fare> mud: howdy
<liar> damnit
<liar> im gonna die on 9aug2040
<liar> at the age of 66
<liar> most likely from a heart attack or maybe cancer
<fare> uh?
<liar> http://test.thespark.com/deathtest
04:40pm
<liar> go take it
04:50pm
<liar> fare: did u take it?
05:10pm
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<KorGrey> hey abibot :P
-:- liar has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: http://test.thespark.com/deathtest 
-:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System <http://www.tunes.org> | http://test.thespark.com/deathtest
<liar> hcf: did u take it?
<hcf> no
<liar> go take ti
<hcf> no
05:20pm
<fare> 
<fare>                                   TheSpark.comDeathTest
<fare>                                 "I'm afraid we have some
<fare>                                 bad news. Please, you might
<fare>                                 want to stay seated."
<fare> 
<fare>                       Mark your calendar or Palm V. You can expect to die on:
<fare>                                    August 28, 1999 
<fare>                                  at the age of -2 years old. 
-:- mode/#Tunes [+o fare] by ChanServ
-:- fare was kicked off #tunes by fare (don't flood me like that!)
* liar/#tunes thinks fare lied on his test :)
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<fare> Tril!
<Tril> What!
<fare> what what?
<Tril> is it so exciting to have live, virtual communication
<Tril> or not
<Tril> who here is on efnet right now and what channel?
05:40pm
<fare> does that answer your question?
<Tril> bye
* Tril/#TUNES is away: (af) [BX-MsgLog Off]
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05:50pm
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* ultima/#Tunes looks at Fare?
* AlonzoTG/#tunes left clicks on ultima
<ultima> Ehm?
* AlonzoTG/#tunes wants to implement OS.
<AlonzoTG> =\
07:30pm
<ultima> easy as pie
<AlonzoTG> okay...
<AlonzoTG> could you implement my OS over the weekend?
<AlonzoTG> =P
<ultima> sure
<AlonzoTG> great
<eihrul> ult: what about multitasking?
<ultima> eihrul: Softwar eonly, no paging
<AlonzoTG> then I would like you to start creating a filesystem module that can read information as well as data from a file and then transfer it to the OS core so that it can create the appropriate data structures...
<eihrul> gah, that's cheesy
<eihrul> an OS without paging is like, well, DOS
<AlonzoTG> DOS IS BOSS!!!!
* AlonzoTG/#tunes is a DOS phreek
-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :))
07:40pm
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<Beholder> hey all
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<eihrul> lo
<hcf> hi
<Beholder> So how is everyone tonight?
08:40pm
<hcf> abi: seen water
<abi> water was last seen saying something on IRC Mon Aug 23 06:13:34 1999
<Beholder> hcf: Is that a new feature you put in?
<hcf> no
<hcf> its been there
* Tril/#TUNES is back from the dead. Gone 3 hrs 1 min 14 secs
<Tril> B HOLE DUR
<hcf> Tril: so, how was it being dead for 3hrs?
<Beholder> Hey Tril
<Tril> still no volunteers to coordinate tunes
<Tril> beholder any thing new? are you too busy to do anything with zope and/or tunes coordination?
<Tril> oh well
-:- SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Tril has no reason)
<Beholder> I'm here
<Beholder> Damn... take a crap and the guy leaves... 
<Beholder> Oh well I'll mail him.
08:50pm
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<liar> anyone here?
<hcf> ...
<liar> u know of a good java compiler for linux?
<hcf> nope
<liar> does windows have any free java2 compilers?
<hcf> i dont know about java poop
11:30pm
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[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0824
IRC log ended Tue Aug 24 00:00:01 1999