IRC log started Tue Sep  7 00:00:00 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0907
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!irq:*! goodnight openprojects
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<ProGuy> hi
11:40am
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<Downix> hello
<ProGuy> Hi
<Downix> hi
12:00pm
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<HypnotiZa> aynbody knows alphasystems ??
<ProGuy> Just by name
<HypnotiZa> hehe
12:30pm
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!heinlein.openprojects.net!! Received :sterling.openprojects.net SERVER hogan.openprojects.net from devlin.openprojects.net !?!
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-:- Topic for #TUNES: Free Reflective Computing System <http://www.tunes.org> || http://liinwww.ira.uka.de/bibliography/index.html
-:- topic set by hcf [Mon Sep  6 05:36:58 1999]
-:- [Users(#Tunes:8)] 
[ TUNES     ] [ Downix    ] [ hcf       ] [ eihrul    ] [ abi       ] 
[ Crimson   ] [@fare      ] [@Tril      ] 
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<ultima> sooooooo......anyone here good with MIPS processor?
* Downix/#tunes has his ears perk up
<Downix> did I hear... MIPS?
<ultima> Yes you did.
<Downix> then you have found someone, what's up?
<ultima> Hey wait are you the sub-500 mips dude? =)
<ultima> Well, I want to make a really simple computer using mips.
<ultima> Handheld, and programmable. Needs to have keypad input, LCD output, and a rs232 port.
<Downix> yes I am
<ultima> PIC is ok but the CPU isn't as powerful as I'd like...8051 is better but still has nasty RAM limitations.
<ultima> I'm a RAM hog. =)
<ultima> I was thinking maybe a r3k might be a good starting point.
<ultima> i know enough electronics not to get myself killed...=)
<Downix> well, it would, but you can get better performance w/o raising the price point if you go with the RM5231
<ultima> What's the price point?
<ultima> how much $$ am I looking at for the HW needed?
<Downix> you could do it for under $300 yeasily
<ultima> perfect.
<ultima> Where could I get the HW needed?
<Downix> after all, that's all that most palmtops are
<Downix> QED makes the CPU, Galileo makes a nice PCI bridge for it, the rest of it, try TI or Sony
<ultima> hmmmmmmmm
<Downix> the r3k is old and very difficult to find control chips for
<ultima> well
<ultima> Any CPU is fine.
<Downix> the newer R4k and R5k series are easier
<Downix> ok
<ultima> price is a definite concern of mine though.
<ultima> I'd like to have a decent amount of RAM -- both flash and volatile
<Downix> if you would do *any* CPU, try a coldfire.  I found a chipset for that which would suit your needs and cost you $100 less
<ultima> coldfire...isn't that the 'next generation m68k'?
<Downix> right
02:30pm
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<ultima> wow
<ultima> my isp sucks.
<ultima> anyway...
<Downix> it's ok
<ultima> I basically have to pay this out of wallet
<ultima> and I'm starting from scratch.
<Downix> ok
<Downix> another good chip to use is the ARM
<Downix> of course if performance isn't an issue, go with the coldfire
<ultima> performance is anissue within bounds
<Downix> the Palm uses one very effectively
<ultima> I don't need anything more powerful than a 486.
<Downix> ok, then the coldfire would suit you
<ultima> ok
<ultima> how would I program it?
<ultima> Does it have builtin OTP ROM or flash or what o?
<Downix> flash
<ultima> on-cpu?
<Downix> no, in the chipset I found for it
<Downix> I'll have to dig it up
<ultima> ok
<ultima> and coldfire is von neumann, no
<ultima> ?
<Downix> yup
<Downix> it's basically the 68k w/ a RISC'd instruction set
<Downix> kinda like what would happen if you took the CISC->RISC stage out of the Pentium CPU and marketed it
<Downix> aka i960
* ultima/#Tunes nods
<ultima> ColdFire eval board for 200$
<ultima> mmmmmmmmmm
<Downix> the eval board is pretty much all you'd need
<ultima> yeah
<ultima> its kinda pricey
<ultima> i'd need mroe info on it
<Downix> ok
<Downix> Also mediaGX is avail, if you want x86 compatabilkity
<ultima> Well, size is a concern
* Downix/#tunes nods
<ultima> how big are these things?
<Downix> about 1.2cm by 1.2 cm
<Downix> they're tiny
02:40pm
<ultima> Er
<ultima> the complete board.
<Downix> the board is large, yes
<Downix> about the size of a micro-AT board
<Downix> a MIPS prototype board is the size of a PCI slot
<ultima> argh
<ultima> see now thats what I need...
<Downix> you need an electronics kit and make your own
<ultima> Also, powering it is a big concern, since its going to have to run off of batteries.
<Downix> well, for that try ARM
<Downix> http://www.arm.com
<ultima> how big?
<Downix> ARM is the most power-efficient CPU I know of w/ any power
* ultima/#Tunes nods
<Downix> not sure, I never looked at the size
<ultima> Maybe I ought not have chosen such a large project.
<ultima> Too late. =)
<ultima> At least I have a long time to do it ;)
<Downix> well, I felt the same way once
* ultima/#Tunes nods.
<ultima> This could be a lot of fun and I really want to do it.
<Downix> but now I have a near-prototype of my unit done
<ultima> I've spent way too much time with my nose in emacs, its time to whip out the soldering iron!
<Downix> hehe
* ultima/#Tunes coughs
<ultima> ARM develop kit is 9k!
<Downix> yup
<Downix> MIPS is $5k
<Downix> SPARC is $100
<Downix> Doh, what about SPARC?
<ultima> $100 for a developer kit, or 100k?
<ultima> SPARC would work too.
<Downix> $100 for a developer kit
<ultima> Actually, I like SPARC.
<ultima> w0w
<ultima> whats in the developer kit?
<Downix> it's like 4" byt 6" I think
<ultima> The ARM is software and programmers and debuggers and stuff.
<Downix> it's a microSPARC board, a debugger, and gcc w/ Linux
<ultima> Well lets see what I need so far.
<Downix> if I remember right
<ultima> Low power consumption, reasonably small footprint, programmability w/ serial cable preferably, eprom burners be expensive, 
<ultima> and most of all, using it must not require an EE Ph.D =)
<Downix> ok
<Downix> hehe
<ultima> The ARM eval board almost fits.
<Downix> the MIPS one does fit
<ultima> I want to learn about electronics and stuff but i am simply not skilled enough to wire a CPU with more than 40 pins.
<ultima> I'd really like an eval board esp one with io pins i can play with
02:50pm
<Downix> hmm
<Downix> ever thought about the 68000?
<Downix> it's slow, but it has only 100 pins, widely spaced out to make it easy to work with
<ultima> 'only 100 pins' he says.
<Downix> 100 pins spaced out widely
<Downix> it isn't hard to work on, trust me
<Downix> ok, have to be going, bbl
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03:00pm
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<liar> a new version of bochs was released today
<liar> he is gonna start adding pentium emu to bochs
<eihrul> ack! no!
<eihrul> is he even going to emulate the f00f bug?
<liar> haha
<liar> SUBJ: Enginerds
<liar> Electrical Engineering: We make the things that make technicians swear
03:20pm
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<liar> next time yer sick and cant goto work tell em u cant come in cuz u have to have an autopsy
03:50pm
<eihrul> no labotomty?
<eihrul> -t
<liar> heh
04:00pm
<liar> Warning label on a Swedish chain saw:
<liar> DO NOT ATTEMPT TO STOP CHAIN WITH YOUR HANDS OR GENITALS.
<eihrul> umm... interesting they would choose genitals over hand
<eihrul> er head i mean :)
<liar> :)
<liar> u know those lighters with the long stem used to light bbq's?
<liar> they have a warning label that says do not use near fire, flame or sparks :)
04:10pm
<liar> warning label on a Korean kitchen knife:
<liar> KEEP OUT OF CHILDREN
<liar> warning label on a bar of Dial soap:
<liar> DIRECTIONS: USE LIKE REGULAR SOAP
04:20pm
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<liar> Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch!
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04:30pm
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!doogie:*! irc.linux.com, which at va research's colocation facility, appears to be having network issues.  We are sorry for the inconvience.  If you don't want to see the messages, please '/umode -s'.  Thank you.
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<pyro> hey.. what up?
<liar> hey
08:50pm
<pyro> you messed with GLIDE right?
<liar> no
<liar> if i did i dont remember
<pyro> something like that.. some 3D thing
<pyro> mesa?
<liar> Teach a man to fish and you have helped him survive another day.
<liar> Teach him to surf the Net and he won't bother you for weeks.
<liar> i was trying to do mesa
<liar> cant remember that either
<pyro> I'm going for this game programming job.. problem is, Win9x is the main platform, and I haven't programmed in it
<liar> ha
<liar> how long have u been with yer current employer
<pyro> uh, 3 months :)
<pyro> looking for something more challenging
<liar> i wouldnt quit yet
<liar> yer next employer will think yer unstable
<pyro> I had my previous job longer
<pyro> that was before college.. and what did I do when I finished college? Got another job doing the same damn thing!
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<ElGato`> HI FRIENDS 
<ElGato`> :D
<pyro> hey
<ElGato`> im a freshman now :D
<ElGato`> ain't i cool (j/j)
<ElGato`> j/k rather
<pyro> where at?
<ElGato`> high school 
<ElGato`> um about retro and your email
<ElGato`> i didn't really get that fixed
<ElGato`> uvars is still giving me trouble
09:00pm
<pyro> could that be because it hasn't been set up yet? it's just a template at the moment
>>> pyro [tcn@cci-209150250101.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 936763348 786764 from #tunes
<ElGato`> oh
<ElGato`> sorry
<ElGato`> my dad wanted me to check something for him
<ElGato`> well that's great
<pyro> I wasn't planning to bother with it till I add multitasking back in
<ElGato`> ok then
<ElGato`> i emailed core about emulation and i haven't gotten a response yet
<ElGato`> i guess that gives me some time
<pyro> anyway I'm booked this week.. gotta write a demo game.. all my old ones were on my HD that crashed, and what do ya know, I could use them 3 days after it died..
<ElGato`> how do i add words to the retro core?
<pyro> edit words.inc
<ElGato`> but it doesn't have the defs :(
<pyro> that's only if you write them in assembly and stick them in the kernel
<pyro> what def's?
<ElGato`> where are the defs boy?!
<ElGato`> definitions of each word
<pyro> mostly in forth.inc
<ElGato`> ok
<ElGato`> my intel doc doesn't tell me anything about interfacing with the fpu :(
09:10pm
<pyro> I think you've already done it
<ElGato`> no like adding the floating point stack
<pyro> where's you code? ~dave/retro?
<ElGato`> yeah
<pyro> oh.. heh.. we just need a bunch of Forth words to interface with it
<ElGato`> yeah like +f or something
<ElGato`> but i don't know how to push or pop from the 8087 :(
<pyro> and I'll need to write a floating-point parser.. when you use the format #.# it pushes it on the FPU stack instead of the regular forth stack
<pyro> there are instructions to load/store to/from memory
<ElGato`> oh
<pyro> go get your x86 manual
<ElGato`> how dandy
<ElGato`> vol 2?
<pyro> the fpu section
<ElGato`> i see
<ElGato`> i sure wish people would just forget backwards compatability so i wouldn't have to write an emulator ;)
09:20pm
<ElGato`> if i emulate the 8087 stack, what is it 8 cells large?
<pyro> emulator for what?
<ElGato`> fpu
<pyro> oh
<pyro> you don't *have* to
<pyro> we all have 486+'s now right?
<pyro> except for those pentium clones w/o fpu
<ElGato`> but *should* we provide emulation
<pyro> sometime
<ElGato`> we have no one to test it :\
<pyro> use bochs :)
<pyro> or dosemu?
<ElGato`> yes yes
<pyro> I can find 386's
<ElGato`> or i'll put retro on my friends 386
<pyro> hell, I can find PC's.. 8086's
<pyro> 1983 vintage :)
<ElGato`> 1983 was 286 genre :P
<pyro> say, it's about ready for hard drive installation
<ElGato`> i know but i don't have the image :(
<pyro> build it
<ElGato`> i can't
<ElGato`> well i can
<pyro> grab nasm
<ElGato`> but that'd take erasing a line of code ;)
<pyro> just make a ~/bin directory and build nasm there, if tril hasn't installed it
<pyro> www.web-sites.co.uk/nasm
<ElGato`> shhhhh
<ElGato`> i'll do it right now
<ElGato`> um
<ElGato`> if you dcc me init.inc that is :)
<ElGato`> no wait
<pyro> eh?
<ElGato`> how do i get one specific part of cvs again?
09:30pm
<ElGato`> heh "dump_shit"
<ElGato`> that rivals the linux "printk("Not cool dude.")
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<ElGato`> hi ruiner
<_ruiner_> hi gato
<_ruiner_> whats up?
<ElGato`> not much
<ElGato`> i started high school today :D
<_ruiner_> congrats
<_ruiner_> I'd have duct taped you to a wall by now
<ElGato`> people don't really pick on my actually
<ElGato`> im like as big as a freshman
<ElGato`> er
<ElGato`> sophmore rather
<liar> ya ppl tend to stay clear of the really ugly kids
<_ruiner_> lol
<ElGato`> :(
<_ruiner_> ugly is contagious there huh?
<ElGato`> :P
<_ruiner_> we don't mean it kiddo....
<_ruiner_> at least I don't
<ElGato`> ;(
<ElGato`> '
<ElGato`> '
<ElGato`> '
<_ruiner_> hey liar....
<ElGato`> i bet liar and pyro msg asm to each other and it's like cybersex ;)
<pyro> he's hibernating
09:40pm
<_ruiner_> asm? nah....that'd be like straight sex.....they're sharing vb...its almost like kissing your sister
<ElGato`> lol
<_ruiner_> or brother rather
<ElGato`> is vb really bad?
<_ruiner_> anybody here have any experience with a language called magic?
<ElGato`> i never bothered to learn any basic
<pyro> i've seen vb at work
<_ruiner_> vb is for people who either don't have the brains or the patience to learn real programming
<ElGato`> uh i heard of a processor called magic :)
<pyro> lots.of.this.crap
<_ruiner_> its bad....trust me
<_ruiner_> yeah pyro....
<_ruiner_> of course, java.has.lots.of.this.crap too
<ElGato`> yeah well from what the hackers dictionary tell me about basic...
<pyro> right on
<ElGato`> i don't want to learn it
<ElGato`> nor cobol...
<ElGato`> or fortran (well mabye)...
<pyro> qbasic was the best implementation I used. No line numbers, and none.of.this.shit either
<_ruiner_> I'm supposed to learn cobol....I don't wanna
<_ruiner_> fortran - formula translator
<ElGato`> yes 
<pyro> fortan's like C
<ElGato`> cobol - common business oriented language
<_ruiner_> yucko
<_ruiner_> and qbasic was cool
<pyro> you just have procedures instead of functions, in fortran. big deal :)
<_ruiner_> yeppers gato
<ElGato`> i know acronyms too :)
<_ruiner_> bios?
<pyro> isn't cobol like basic? basic was for kids, cobol was for businessmen ;)
<ElGato`> basic input output system
<_ruiner_> kinda sorta
<_ruiner_> only cobol sucks
<pyro> D3D?
<_ruiner_> yeah...
<ElGato`> we should feed acronyms into abi
<_ruiner_> cobol is a lot nastier from what I hear
<pyro> SQL?
<ElGato`> abi: cobol is COmmon Business Oreinted Language
<abi> ...but cobol is a lot nastier from what I hear...
<_ruiner_> pyro is dyslexic...he meant 36DD....which would be a good reference to my woman
<ElGato`> abi: no, cobol is COmmon Business Oreinted Language
<abi> okay, ElGato`.
<ElGato`> abi: bios is Basic Input Output System
<ElGato`> abi: bios?
<ElGato`> damnit bot
<abi> bios is Basic Input Output System
<_ruiner_> abi: ggp is gotta go pee
<_ruiner_> heh heh
<ElGato`> abi: lol is Laughing Out Loud
<ElGato`> im gonna do this in msg
<_ruiner_> ggp?
<abi> ggp is probably gotta go pee
<_ruiner_> ummmm....still there?
<_ruiner_> gato?
<abi> i heard gato was spanish for tijuanan crack whore
<ElGato`> D:
<ElGato`> ruiner: you ever been to tj?
09:50pm
<_ruiner_> nope
<ElGato`> dumbass
<_ruiner_> liar, wake up
<_ruiner_> wake up
<_ruiner_> wake up
<_ruiner_> wake up
<_ruiner_> liar
<ElGato`> everyone thinks they know everthing about tj 
<_ruiner_> wake up
<ElGato`> silly billy
<_ruiner_> I never claimed to know anything about it
<ElGato`> ok :)
<ElGato`> abi: hola
<abi> ElGato`: hoy
<ElGato`> damn
<ElGato`> hola
<ElGato`> abi: hola?
<abi> hola is probably spanish for hello you monolingual mother fucker
<ElGato`> :D
<_ruiner_> I'm bored
<_ruiner_> how much do you know about electronics gato?
<ElGato`> paste some code in the channel
<ElGato`> jack shit really
<_ruiner_> dammit
<_ruiner_> what good are you?
<pyro> what's this:
<pyro> <_QZ>         mov cx,4
<pyro> <_QZ> .conv:
<pyro> <_QZ>         mov al,dh
<pyro> <_QZ>         shr al,4
<pyro> <_QZ>         add al,48
<pyro> <_QZ>         cmp al,58
<pyro> <_QZ>         jb short .out
<pyro> <_QZ>         add al,7
<pyro> <_QZ> .out:
<pyro> <_QZ>         stosb
<pyro> <_QZ>         shl dx,4
<pyro> <_QZ>         loop .conv
<_ruiner_> geez
<ElGato`> pyro?
<abi> i guess pyro is an asm whore
<ElGato`> D:
<pyro> haha
<_ruiner_> lol
10:00pm
<ElGato`> ruiner?
<abi> i guess ruiner is liar's hardware bitch
<ElGato`> DDD:
<_ruiner_> I know who to go to with my asm ?'s now
<_ruiner_> hmmmmm......
<ElGato`> abi: por que?
<abi> por que is spanish for why you monolingual motherfucker
<_ruiner_> wonder how that one came about
<ElGato`> !!!!@#$#@$@!#$!#@$#@!$#@!
<ElGato`> abi: i should clean your mouth out with sope
<pyro> isn't por que "what for"?
<liar> pyro: it has 2 meanings
<liar> it is context based
<pyro> the other is 'because' right?
<_ruiner_> liar is back!
<_ruiner_> woohoo!
<pyro> well I'm done ftp'ing.. gotta sleep
<pyro> see ya all
-:- SignOff pyro: #TUNES (pyro has no reason)
<_ruiner_> liar?
<abi> it has been said that liar is a hardware pimp
<_ruiner_> qz?
10:10pm
<ElGato`> pyro: literally "by what"
<ElGato`> por meaning "by"
<ElGato`> porque is because
<ElGato`> por que == why?
<ElGato`> porque == because
<ElGato`> back to work
<_ruiner_> lair you there?
10:20pm
<_ruiner_> liar?
<abi> liar is, like, a hardware pimp
10:30pm
-:- SignOff ElGato`: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ElGato`[209-68-229-135.dialup.cust.tfb.com])
-:- Die [nate@ppp082.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for _ruiner_[ppp291.wi.centuryinter.net])
-:- Die is now known as _ruiner_
-:- SignOff liar: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep)
-:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Leaving)
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0908
IRC log ended Wed Sep  8 00:00:01 1999