IRC log started Mon Oct 25 00:00:01 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1025 12:10am -:- carlito [sabanmr@137.28.188.99] has joined #tunes <_ruiner_> dude! what's up nate? <_ruiner_> not much, whats up with you? not much..didn't get my e-mail? <_ruiner_> haven't checked <_ruiner_> all I get nowadays is spam prob should do that some day <_ruiner_> come to #osdev what's there? #osdev for one isnt logged like #tunes is ah 12:20am -:- eihrul [eihrul@usr5-ppp61.lvdi.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff td: #TUNES (td has no reason) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- carlito [sabanmr@137.28.188.99] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you) -:- Netjoined: lackey.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes -:- Zhivago [brian@th.merddin.com.au] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (Ping timeout for abi[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Use /Server to connect to a server -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from lewis.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is lewis.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from lewis.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 12 02:19 EDT(from lewis.openprojects.net) -:- lewis.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(5)] 1% -:- [global users on irc(235)] 46% -:- [invisible users on irc(278)] 54% -:- [ircops on irc(14)] 3% -:- [total users on irc(513)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(31)] (avg. 16 users per server) -:- [total channels created(149)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !lewis.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 9 (8 clients) !lewis.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 3 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr. -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- [Users(#tunes:4)] [ TUNES ] [ Fare ] [ smkl ] [ Zhivago ] -:- Channel #tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 6.691 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (Ping timeout for abi[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (Ping timeout for abi[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by lewis.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- Unable to connect to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net: Connection timed out -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- Unable to connect to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net: Invalid argument -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- Unable to connect to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net: Invalid argument -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- Unable to connect to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net: Invalid argument -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Servers exhausted. Restarting. [4] -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- Unable to connect to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net: Invalid argument -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- Unable to connect to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net: Invalid argument -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Servers exhausted. Restarting. [5] -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- Unable to connect to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net: Invalid argument -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- Unable to connect to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net: Invalid argument -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Servers exhausted. Restarting. [6] -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- Unable to connect to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net: Invalid argument -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Servers exhausted. Restarting. [7] -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Servers exhausted. Restarting. [8] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from king.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is king.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from king.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 12 02:19 EDT(from king.openprojects.net) -:- king.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(48)] 9% -:- [global users on irc(230)] 45% -:- [invisible users on irc(279)] 55% -:- [ircops on irc(14)] 3% -:- [total users on irc(509)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(31)] (avg. 16 users per server) -:- [total channels created(152)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !king.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 66 (64 clients) !king.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 4 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr. -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- [Users(#tunes:5)] [ TUNES ] [ abi ] [ Fare ] [ smkl ] [ Zhivago ] -:- Channel #tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 3.540 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us1002.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (Ping timeout for abi[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp146.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@200.224.105.179] has joined #tunes Shalom! 10:40am -:- Kaufmann is now known as KaufmannBRB -:- SignOff KaufmannBRB: #TUNES (Ping timeout for KaufmannBRB[200.224.105.179]) -:- washort [washort@CS-Sun01.samford.edu] has joined #tunes -:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@200.224.105.136] has joined #tunes -:- NetSplit: lackey.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [11:20am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [lackey.openprojects.net] -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Well, I'm off. "Jesus would make a good main character for a Seinfeld spinoff" - Amber << Well, it got my attention... coming soon, the pilot episode of BEN YOSSEF! Sundays at Atheist News Network!) -:- SignOff washort: #TUNES (skool) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us1002.javanet.com]) -:- binEng [Anders@j141.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes -:- ache [user1980@200.9.147.123] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff ache: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us135.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES ( ) !devlin.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT adams.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes -:- NetSplit: lucas.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [02:33pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [lucas.openprojects.net] -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp146.lvdi.net]) -:- Netjoined: lucas.openprojects.net irc.linux.com -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes -:- NetSplit: irc.linux.com split from sterling.openprojects.net [02:38pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [irc.linux.com] -:- Netjoined: irc.linux.com sterling.openprojects.net -:- Fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #tunes -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us135.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp187.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-129-194.s448.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- water [water@tnt-10-225.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Ping timeout for water[tnt-10-225.tscnet.net]) -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (debooting.) -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp381.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -:- water [water@tnt-9-129.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes rv identify fanda42ngo geez it would be nice to have intelligent cursor focus management <_ruiner_> lol, nice password <_ruiner_> brb great, now i have to change it 05:10pm -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for _ruiner_[ppp381.wi.centurytel.net]) -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Ping timeout for water[tnt-9-129.tscnet.net]) -:- water [water@tnt-10-194.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes ack! i just lost about 15 email msg's 05:50pm -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp296.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes it seems no one on the tunes mlist believes me <_ruiner_> about? about arrow 06:10pm -:- carlito [sabanmr@137.28.109.252] has joined #tunes hey there hey ruiner * carlito/#tunes slaps _ruiner_ around a bit with a large trout * water/#tunes hurls BRiX at carlito talk to him in #osdev thank you 06:30pm -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Ping timeout for water[tnt-10-194.tscnet.net]) -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh1-port6.snet.net] has joined #tunes hi 07:00pm -:- Metaphor [dim@spc-isp-ktc-uas-8-48.sprint.ca] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Metaphor: #TUNES (ircII 2.8.2-EPIC4pre1.001 -- Starting all over again.) -:- water [water@tnt-10-140.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes anyone here? yes me newbie here well, newbie, i can answer questions for ya hi eihrul eih: i forget. are you on the mlist? yes have you been following the two current threads? to varying degrees -:- Zhivago [brian@th.merddin.com.au] has joined #tunes what do you think? as for prism, oil i see a vague resemblence to arrow how so? in that they are various languages all derrived from some basic language huh? water: hey, did you get that example together? zhivago: yeah, let me pull it out of my a** real quick water: ok, I'll assume that'sa no :) * water/#tunes is better than God at providing examples for Arrow for lazy people. oh yeah, god didn't MAKE any analogies for arrow water: when your system can handle "Hello World" I might take it seriously (or whatever the universe is) zhivago: well, we have to make an environment for it wter: well, a hello world machine is hardly complex i am alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeah, a one-bytecode vm ;) with no memory at all, no gc water: consider a state machine which takes in random tokens, and writes H e l l o W o r l d, on the output stream water: try not to go stupid. that's not arrow water: it is unbecoming water: well, can you implement a system as simple as that state machine with it? ARROW IS NOT A STATE MACHINE yes water: that wasn't the question. a graph is a state-machine period water: I just defined a really really really simple system for arrow to implement. no kidding water: if arrow can't handle something like this, then what can it hope to do? 07:30pm letters would be selections from a graph of 26 nodes zhivago: examples _limit_ peoples' ideas of arrow water: so, how would you implement this in arrow? water: having no examples limits people's appreciation of the system to some wishy-washy potential. strings would be list-shaped graphs of references to letters water: which sounds powerful in theory, but can't implement Hello World. i just did! the ui selects the string with another arrow water: hmm, I must have missed the arrow representation. * water/#tunes reels over water: you can't represent it formally in arrow? I JUST DID! water: ie, with arrows? :) water: hmm, I don't see any formal representation which will provide the hello world. it's not first-order, though you can't model it finitely any finite model is an ontology, which cannot view the whole system's state even infinite models are ontologies ok, so you can't handle models no, the arrow idea is to go beyond models what's beyond a model? to abandon consistency and decidability for expressiveness where necessary heh Arrow! ok, but without being able to express "Hello World" formally. express it within an ontology. use Lisp notation it's trivial! water: well, then give me an example of the hello world, constructed from arrows, formaly represented. it will take a lot of ascii bandwidth hold on * water/#tunes opens a text-editor i'll dcc it btw, arrow ain't for text-interfaces it's too cumbersome that way, sort of like prolog darn it, this will take forever how detailed do you want it? 07:40pm hello? -:- carlito [sabanmr@137.28.109.252] has left #tunes [] re heh, I just want something with some arrows in it if its this much trouble to make something so simple in it, then it makes you wonder get a clue. it's designed to handle loads of information which means non-ascii representation most arrow graphs are supposed to handle more than an infinite number of arrows, anyway given the tiny amount of information in a state machine of that nature, I don't see that as a problem it doesn't look like arrow is a useful system bullshit the state machine itself is just a graph i'm not drawing the graph i was drawing the spec for it that's why i asked geez oh, never mind :) this is so frustrating when you get something actually doing something in arrow I'd beinterested to see it thanks, lazy future user i call this 0d computing well, so far I'm unimpressed you're also unhelpful i'm making a conceptual leap, and i don't have anyone to back me up water: well, um, you're making big promises, but not delivering on the little ones. well i haven't got a clue yet what is going on but i'd be willing to browse through the list it's not a little promise to make an ascii info-store! 07:50pm witness Cyc cyc has millions of rules, but knows very little water: yes. arrow starts by trying to improve that through reflection and no text-identifiers inherent to the spec water: do you actually have any systems implemented with arrow? zhivago: i wouldn't have joined tunes if i had arrow i joined to find people interested in helping water: ok, so you have nothing, can't sketch anything, and get obstreperous easily :) water: this bodes ill. all i've found is people who can't see beyond code help me! water: well, givne that you have a reasonably ambigious document, and no examples, this is understandable. judge the idea on its merits, not mine well, I don't know what the idea actually means yet since I haven't been able to see it _doing_ anything read the paper! ok t25 words or less feel free to use any associations and metaphors i'm all ears it's a set of ideas I've read over that paper, it's far more ambigious than an example :) las jdghlsrg argh! water: I'm trying to work out if its actually an interesting idea, or something which is already dead. water: either of which fit into that document. well, you're not helping me explain it at all * rares/#tunes checks the page water: well, you're refusing to even sketch a trivial system from arrows. water: I'll take a graph in any clear representation can't you figure out a fsm graph in your head? it's in all sorts of papers water: yes, but that's not the question yes it is water: the question is 'how do these stupid arrows work'? i'm still working that out i have a few primitives, but they're not complete for some reason the primitives have to be arrow objects in order for it to work, and that's the problem bleh... i feel like shooting myself why won't anyone help me? ok, well, if you want help, then I suggest you start drawing. water: because you make it impossible to help you i can't draw worth s** water: you don't need to draw well in order to construct graphs * rares/#tunes can draw sort of not on computer, anyway where the paper on arrow water: there is a package called 'dot' which you can use for non-commercial work, which will draw graphs water: although it is more heirarchic than I would prefer water: I suggest you draw some pictures of how arrows _might_ work in an implementation. zhivago: gut it won't draw arrows referring to other arrows, i bet water: and then people will have some comon referrants. well, i don't have a definite answer for that water: actually I believe it does. what platforms? rares: http://www.tunes.org/papers/ water: its C source, probably ansi, otherwise posix (between the 3-yr-old twins, the idiotic roommates, cartoons on the tv, and this arrow situation, suicide looks pretty good) 08:00pm homocode is a better option, sir er homocide bleh. if only i could get my linux box to work right eihrul: killing your clones? heh i live with white trash that's an option eihrul: not sure what else homocide is relevent to well, i don't know of any more *cides besides genocide eih: homicide * eihrul/#tunes notes his spelling mistake for future reference. ughhh now i'm really depressed matricide, patricide, infanticide, regicide, are all useful. i don't even have an accessible linux guru to get my system running right legalicide legicide :) water: if you'd stop whinging, and ask useful questions, you might get somewhere water: what is your problem with linux? water i'll read your paper and if i like it i'll fix your linux system i don't know over the net? yeah whatever water: uh, lets see, you try to boot linux, and what happens? i tried #linpeople and #linuxhelp not tonight they couldn't figure it out water: I don't care what you tried. i work tomorrow well, the screen blanks every two minutes water: so it boots fine? yeah water: and it runs fine? he has x problems it also won't mount any volumes like zip100 or win98 water: then it won't boot of course it mounts ext2fs water: ok, that sounds like file-system support, not mounting values water: be accurate zhiv: i'm very tired water: does the screen blank while not in C? s/C/X water: what kinda zip drive? no zhiv: no air: scsi port water: ok, so you have a perfeftly using, working linux system, just problems with X water: I have a scsi zip drive, and it works ok, do you have scsi support in your kernel? oh yeah, anything that tries to access the cd-rom doesn't work, but cd-rom booting does work water: do u have scsi disk support in the kernel? zhiv: yes water: also get the support for the file-systems what you need in the kernel. zhiv: yes, i selected those options water: can you see the scsi device in /proc/scsi/scsi ? water: did you recompile your kernel, and re-install it? it claims they're mounted, but i can't get to their fs's i don't know how to re-compile the kernel water: when try to mount them, what do you type? i don't type water; ok, how did you select these options? water: how, do you try to get them to be mounted? hold on, my linux box is 30 ft away -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@207-172-184-189.s189.tnt6.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes using the file-system configurator the one provided with x eeek... water: no, X doesn't provide one. I took a look at the filesystem for my OS and AIEEEEEE water: which distribution did you install? man that d00d is scary... zhiv: the rh5.1 provides one alonzo: you have a little man in your fs? usermount? It has to be distributed, support virtual memory, and do all this other stuff! 08:10pm air: dunno hmpf water: ok, I suggest that you try 'mount -t msdos /dev/hda2 /mnt' water: or something along those lines from the command line. alonzo: well, VM support is easy, distribution isn't so easy -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) if the zip disk was formatted in windows then the dos fs is on partition 4 back zhiv: k, brb water i think i have a similar project we'll see you don't have thies machine on a network? not yet my machine is the only one here with ethernet rare: the main problem I have is that I've had brilliant ideas before, only when I've tried to do something with them, I've found out that they're, um, impractical :) rare: which is why I'm pushing to see something concrete. well, stop being that pushy water: well, I'll ignore this project, until I get an example. -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us744.javanet.com] has joined #tunes water: you might also want to see if you can move the linux box closer to the box you're workin from water: otherwise helping you will be excessively irritating :) how about a very compact but very useful toolkit that will go from being able to migrate distibutions, to migrating Frenices, to migrating Unices, and finally Oses hehe rares: well, that would be nice. rare: if a little vague sounding from what i've read at it's infinte point it becomes arrow-like the problem with infinity is that its never quite in reach and thus, somewhat impractical. think of infinity as such : in brute force securityy systems you set up a high wall to cross zhiv: ok in real security zhiv: it worked water: hurrah zhiv: if you can encode an infinite structure finitely (using axioms), then who cares? water: hmm, did you get anything from "cat /proc/scsi/scsi" ? you have permission sytems which make breaking in impossible because it is illogical zhiv: or provide a formula for the elements of a set all you have left is buffer overflows zhiv: is that where my zip is mounted? water: if I can't _do_ anything with the stupid thing, then I don't care rares: yes, I understand this. zhiv: which is exacttly what i'm trying to figure out water: no, but if its not listed there, then either you don't have scsi support, or its not happy. water: but it will tell you where it is so i say infinity (permissioned systems or some elegance blessed upon arrow is possible) zhiv: the question to me is open, since no theory contradicts it at all zhi: k rares: non-conservatism does not an infinity ake. rares: I'm using non-conservative security in this system I'm developing. rares: a trusted compiler to prevent interface violations. rares: but there are no infinities involved. well i just redefined in fity silly darn it, i unmounted the zip infinity even i'll have to fix that real quick, brb again 08:20pm rares: you've reefined infinity to mean non-conservative. rares: which is imho, silly :) zhiv: no water: no which? i mean, it's silly, but you're telling him all wrong you have to be constructive afk water: if you want to randomly redefine words in order to make someone else's sentence work, then its silly. me away ftom net in 5 secs cyall you lose meaning that way, very post-modernist though. later rares i AM NOT a solipsist :) well, solipsism is somewhat different :) -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for _ruiner_[ppp296.wi.centurytel.net]) i mean i'm not going to get lost in all this but i got to go later rares -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh1-port6.snet.net] has left #tunes [] whew water: did you look in /proc/scsi/scsi yet? it's not mounted, though I don't care this is for the device not the media i mean the device support it's not installed right now for some reason ok, so what ahppens when you cat /proc/scsi/scsi? did u compile scsi disk support as a module? i get an empty file water: ok, this means you have no scsi devices detected where did you get the idea that i know how to compile in linux? water: what about ls /proc/scsi water: I don't care about that, just answer questions correctly :) i get "scsi and .. " water: ok, you have no scsi card detected water: but I suspect you have scsi support water: what scsi card do you have? hey, /mnt/cdrom/ only contains aoatapi.sys dunno water: where did you steal this machine from? btw, i didn't select 'scsi support' when i last installed hahah that's what i've been trying to say water: is this yer machine? water: ok, well, it may be lacking support entirely, but I didnt think /proc/scsi would be there without it the old owner hasn't given me the manuals yet water; when the machine reboots, it should list the name of the scsi controler card water: write it down. water: open the machine up and look at the scsi card heh I'm going to have a shower, bbiab yeah, i'll write that down amidst about 400 boot messages yeah right which card is the scsi card? the one with a cable going to the zip drive damn it, it's ppa!! ppa? parallel-port oh u said it was scsi well, according to the installation process, it was 08:30pm i hate redhat let me go learn howto install a par zip no, i hate linux. i hate redhat for selling it i'm probably the only person who has installed linux successfully while at sea and even managed to get x working by a convoluted process on a laptop :) * water/#tunes is way too tired life has sucked for far to long type: less /var/log/messages ok and look for the messages from yer last boot see if there are any ppa entries nope i remember actually mounting the zip drive which contained the xfree86 server (on my laptop) and opening the rpm and installing it, then configuring x. what a pain. but at least it worked re this system won't even read the cdrom unless it's the first rh install cd on the initial boot water: if you weren't so vague this would be easier sorry water: what is the cd-drive connected to? the ide controller i'm guessing :) ok,if you want to answer questions stupidly, then there's not much point helping it's too tight a space to trace the connectors to use linux u really need to know yer machine i don't want to know my machine when you boot the bloody thing, which controller does it say its connected to? i'll check is it the primary master/slave, or secondary master/slave? 08:40pm infact if you write down everything it says on boot, now, then your life will be easier wait. do u still have the source code u compiled yer kernel from? air: he didn't air: this is the redhat default kernel air: but it comes with a lot of modules oh so he has all the modules and just needs to load them most likely