IRC log started Tue Dec 14 00:00:01 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1214
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<FareWell> gakuk!
08:10am
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* zarq/#tunes is back from being away: trug
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<Fufie> hmm.. lots of OSes mentioned in comp.os.research..
<hcf> any not mentioned in tunes:review:os?
<Fufie> I think so.. will check
10:10am
<Fufie> yes.. couldn't find some of them
<Fufie> who is in charge of the page?
<hcf> not sure
<zarq> how do i submit a contribution to the reviews section?
<hcf> post to review@tunes.org
<zarq> i thought you did everything trough cvs?
<Fufie> hcf: I can forward the news-article to review..
<Fufie> zarq: the review page is in cvs
<zarq> thought so.. but anonymous has no cvs write access?
<Fufie> no
<zarq> i see
<zarq> then i'll mail it
<zarq> (when it's written) :)
<Fufie> article forwarded
10:20am
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<smoke> hi
10:50am
<Fufie> hi
11:00am
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<hcf> hoy binEng
<binEng> hi hcf
12:00pm
<hcf> binEng: anything new?
<binEng> Well... not really.
<binEng> Yourself, maybe?
<hcf> nope
12:10pm
<smoke> hum
01:20pm
<smoke> how does one initialize random seed in clisp?
<hcf> smoke: http://ki.cs.tu-berlin.de/clisp/cltl/clm/node133.html
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<smoke> hcf; thanks!
01:40pm
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<lar1> Hey
<mibin> lo 'lar
<mibin> 'lo lar
<mibin> heh
<lar1> :)
03:00pm
<lar1> Deck the halls with penguin power!
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<mibin> huh?
03:10pm
<eihrul> lar1: but umm, that's a christmas thing... which infers christianity :P
<mibin> hmm, no
<mibin> it is an xmas song
<mibin> it just infers xianity
<eihrul> yes :P
<lar1> eihrul:  It was in the latest LinuxMall flyer, and I thought it cute.  No offence intended
<eihrul> gah, marketing gimmicks are disgusting, not cute :P
<mibin> hehe
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<lar1> But this one sounded cool!
<eihrul> but its disgusting in principle.... just remember
<lar1> Yes, I never said it wasn't
<eihrul> hmmm, finally someone posted on the tunes list...
<lar1> Woo Hoo!
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<binEng> somebody did?
<Fufie> posted now?
<eihrul> yes
<eihrul> its amazing no?
<Fufie> indeed
<lar1> Was it a decent post?
<binEng> I guess I'm far down on the mlist
<eihrul> yah, it was pointing out links not on OS Review subproject
<Fufie> I posted that to tunes-review earlier this morning
<binEng> that doesn't count!
<lar1> eihrul:  Ah, this is somthing I need to see
03:20pm
<lar1> eihrul:  Where can I get access to this?
<eihrul> eh
<eihrul> its on the tunes mlist
<eihrul> Fufie: you're the stig guy? :)
<eihrul> wow
<binEng> heh
<eihrul> false alarm
<eihrul> since you posted it, doesn't mean jack
<Fufie> :)
<lar1> eihrul:  Is the log archived or somthing?  I am not subscribed it seems
<Fufie> I posted it to review@tunes.org
<Fufie> lar: yes.. check the tunes web site
<lar1> Fufie:  Ah, ok
<Fufie> see at the end of the raw archive
<Fufie> eih: and somebody needs to mail to those lists :p
<eihrul> Fufie: sure, but we already do our part by being #tunes groupies
<Fufie> t
<mibin> mail has an higher latency than irc
<Fufie> but all the 100 people on the mailing-lists need to see some activity
* eihrul/#tunes ponders.
<eihrul> i think i've seen pebble before
<eihrul> nemesis and l4 definitely... i don't think people *haven't* heard of those
<Fufie> it wasn't on the list.. nor was go!
<eihrul> Lava i've heard of
<eihrul> go i have not
03:30pm
<eihrul> more papers for me to read though :)
<Fufie> ie a useful post :p
<eihrul> depends on what you define as useful
<Fufie> btw: is there any oint in having separate content on the wiki wiki web?
<Fufie> s/oint/point/
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<Fufie> it's downright silly to update material in both cvs and wiki
<eihrul> speedos?
<abi> i think speedos is at http://www.informatik.uni-ulm.de/rs/staff/projects/SPEEDOS/SPEEDOS_E.html
<eihrul> poorly chosen name IMO :)
<eihrul> could be trademarked too
<lar1> heh
<eihrul> Fufie: are there any papers on go?
<Fufie> I don't know, never really checked a lot
<eihrul> segmentation?
<eihrul> sheesh
03:40pm
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<zarq> heb je morgen middag nog college?
<zarq> wrong channel
<Fufie> hmm.. dutch
<zarq> jup
<zarq> are you able to make sense of it?
<eihrul> hey
<eihrul> that Charm URL you gave isn't working :)
<mibin> middag=midday?
<mibin> morgen=the morning?
<Fufie> I know norwegian, english and german and dutch is sortof a cross between the three
<Fufie> charm url?
<eihrul> yes
<zarq> morgen middag = tomorrow in the afternoon.. so yes, you are right at least for a big part
<eihrul> CHARM (http://os.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/Charm/)
<Fufie> I just forwarded the mail.. I didn't check all urls :)
<mibin> heh, i am totally wrong
<zarq> mibin: you got the `middag' part right, didn't you
<Fufie> middag=dinner
<mibin> ahh
<zarq> fufie ;)
<mibin> abi, middag is dinner
<eihrul> agg
<eihrul> speedos has no papers!
<zarq> in norway, you don't eat big meals for lunch, like you do in e.g. france, do you?
<Fufie> no, lunch is cold here
<Fufie> eih: checking that url now
<smkl> in norway, they only eat raw fishes
<zarq> fufie: right... i had a sm
<eihrul> if you're gonna post url's to tunes list
<mibin> hmm, i dont thnk i am in france
<eihrul> they better have research papers behind them! :P
* Fufie/#tunes gives eih a bonk over the head :)
<zarq> blub
<eihrul> because marketing descriptions don't do me any good
<zarq> stupid keymap
<Fufie> smkl: yes.. it's a thing whalers share.. we and the japanese :)
<mibin> you norwegians still hunt whales?
* eihrul/#tunes ponders.
<eihrul> speedos guy claims to have invented persistent virtual memory
<eihrul> gah
<eihrul> that and no papers, is offensive
04:10pm
<Fufie> mibin: only some norwegians far north.. and we only let them do it or they will rebel and be a pain in the arse for the rest of us
<zarq> fufie :)
<FareWell> Is anyone in charge of updating OSes.html?
<FareWell> maybe all these URLs should be sent to review@tunes.org ...
<mibin> yea, far north norwegians live in an hostile environment and may be dangerous =)
<Fufie> mibin: it's better to let them hunt whales and stay up there instead of moving into the cities, get drunk and get violent in the taxi queues.. :)
<zarq> fufie: why not let them form a rebellian force for an independant state of the Sami?
<FareWell> send the taxis hunt whales
<eihrul> Fufie: then he claims to have made combined segmentation and paging....
<Downix> Save the Whales!  Collect the whole set!
<Fufie> zarq: the whalers are not fond of the samis..
<FareWell> save the whalers! collect the whole set!
<Fufie> zarq: they're less popular with whalers than pampered "southeners"
<mibin> ahh, so whale hunting may be a way to get out of alcohol addictment
<Downix> lol
<zarq> fufie: oh i always thought it were the sami that hunted for whales
<Fufie> mibin: they bring along enough booze on their boats... don't you worry. :)
<binEng> Norweigans are cruel seal hunters! We got it on tape! The one who documented it had to flee to Sweden (forgot his name)
<Fufie> zarq: the sami hunt for reindeer.. that was a toucgh sport for some time but then they tamed them and now it's easier to hunt them ;)
<Fufie> bin: odd lindbergh.. poor fellow
<binEng> yup
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<binEng> hey there beh
<beholder> Hey :)
<Downix> hey
<beholder> Fancy meeting you here ;)
<binEng> Fufie: So what was the story on Odd?
<zarq> fufie: hehehe hunting your cavia seems to be a pretty hard task if i may believe the stories i've heard ;))
<beholder> Hey Downix
<Fufie> zarq: cavia?
<zarq> fufie; so hunting reindeer when they're captured could be harder if they're captured
<zarq> uh.
<zarq> that didn't make much sense.
<beholder> Hunting Reindeer? 
<Fufie> bin: I am not really sure, it is hard to get the true story. what is known however was that he filmed some of the seal hunt and it is also said that he directed the hunters to do stuff, but I don't know. a lot of bad blood in that case and the seal hunters aren't really sympathetic so I guess their terror drove him off :-/
<eihrul> Fufie: mmm, lava has many papers
<FareWell> next century, we'll have man hunters, to reduce over-population on earth
<eihrul> not so good for man...
<binEng> Fufie: I don't remember much of it anymore.. must've been a while ago.
<beholder> FareWell: I'd believe that, and they train people with multiplayer deathmatch internet games :)
<Fufie> zarq: I am not too familiar with the samis, they live really far north and some of them have reindeers
<zarq> fufie: where do you live?
<Fufie> bin: he seems to have found a quiet place in sweden and I am glad he has gotten a place where he is not bothered by stupid people
<Fufie> zarq: Bergen
<mibin>   19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
<zarq> (i'm sort of a bit familiar with the topography of Norway)
04:20pm
<binEng> me too ;)
<zarq> fufie: ah i've been there.
<zarq> fufie: it rained ;))
<Fufie> zarq: hehe :)
<mibin> hmm is bergen near hamar?
<Fufie> mibin: no
<mibin> near Mysen?
<binEng> Mysen? :)
<Fufie> zarq: by most standards it is the coziest and most beautiful town in all of Norway 
<Fufie> mibin: no
<zarq> fufie: i'll have to agree.
<mibin> well mysen its a small city i think
<eihrul> the first men that need to die are those who use uncompressed postscript
<Fufie> mysen is a few houses that stand close to each other.. 
<binEng> Fufie: I heard all Norweigans were morons! ;)
<mibin> Fufie: heh
<Fufie> bin: trust no one :p
<mibin> well i dont even trust myself
<zarq> bineng ;)
<binEng> "Please sit and relax while Windows 98 installs on your computer."     PANIC!!!
<Downix> lol!
<Fufie> bin: the relationship between Norway and sweden have been better than the last few days :)
<mibin> haha
<FareWell> geography of norway: there's the part where it's damn too cold, and the part where it's even worse.
<beholder> binEng: Still going eh? ;)
<mibin> heh
<binEng> Fufie: Can you confirm that Norway is the last Soviet state?! ;)
<zarq> fufie: i must say though that i like the attitude of the swedes more
<zarq> fufie: but i'm only an ignorant foreigner :)
<FareWell> Hey, I helped a friend install w98 on his computer. After a 90' failed attempt, a 180' successful one.
<mibin> what is w98
<Fufie> bin: :p
<Downix> lol
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<Fufie> bin: I'll admit we have a few lousy politicians but rosengren seems to be the dumbest swede to be found and that is no small feat :)
<FareWell> mibin: something I'd prefer never to have seen
<FareWell> I lost 1d6 points of SANity trying to install it.
<binEng> Fufie: Lol. I wouldn't bet my money on that, though. :) You should see our minister of schools. Or maybe rather not.
<Fufie> bin: lol :)
<mibin> so i assume Norway has a kinda pinko government
<beholder> FareWell: I work with it on a daily basis, it's not hard to install... it just takes forever... and requires many driver upgrades once it's in... then it requires all sorts of expensive software to be installed... then it crashes.   Nothing wrong with that, it's a learning experience ;)
<Fufie> mibin: not really, they're at the moment a bunch of wanking christians who hate gays and colour tv and the net.
<binEng> beholder: Well thanks for all encouragment
<beholder> binEng: Hehe, well you want your games don't you!? ;)
<mibin> i am a christian and i hate the first two but love the third
<binEng> mibin: And rumor has it they are Norweigans as well.
04:30pm
<Fufie> bin: the gays? :)
<mibin> bahh
<beholder> binEng: Without Half-Life how will we learn to defend ourselves when the government collapes, and the world turns to anarchy... I wanna be a tribal leader :)
<binEng> umm
<Fufie> mibin: you would feel like an atheist next to the christians in the government.. that's mum back to the kitchen, gays are bad, and so on..
<binEng> Great, the installation crashed
<mibin> heh
<beholder> binEng: WTF is wrong with your system?  
<beholder> binEng: Did you delete the windows and program files directory?
<binEng> beholder: kinda, yes. It maybe didn't crash exactly, it hung when trying to reboot
<beholder> binEng: Hmm... that's very strange.  Or very normal, depending on how you look at it
<beholder> binEng:  Weren't yougetting an older machine and putting a nix on it to do your internet stuff?
<binEng> beholder: yes.. haven't done that yet, though
<beholder> binEng:  When you said you sorta deleted the windows and program files dir, which one did you not delete? 
<FareWell> beh: w98 *is* very hard to install on SCSI.
<binEng> I saved some programs, but nothing the installation should care about
<FareWell> oh, and what about that LASTDRIVE=E automatically inserted by who knows?
<beholder> FareWell:  Never had a problem... was it some kind of oddball scsi card and device?
<FareWell> no, all very standard stuff.
<binEng> lastdrive=e??
<FareWell> my friend would have *never* *ever* found how to fix that himself
<beholder> FareWell:  Make your own boot disks to install windows :) 
<beholder> Or better yet, just copy the cab files and setup.exe to a directory on the hard drive.  I guess your just spoiled with your *easy* to install Linux'es... hehe ;)
04:40pm
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<core> hi
<beholder> hello
<core> hey beh, what's up, long time no talk.. I saw you put unios to sleep
<eihrul> core: wow....
<beholder> core: Wow, someone noticed the page update :)
<core> hi eihrul :)
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<core> beholder: of course :)
<beholder> core: Yeah, put the sucker to bed, I told bin I'd do it a while back but didn't get around to it till a few days ago
<lar1> core:  hey
<core> hi lar1
<beholder> Hey lar
<binEng> fyi, I actually saw that too
<beholder> So what's new around here?  Anyone develop and OS yet ;)
<beholder> binEng: Hmm I guess I'm the only one that doesn't look at the page often ;)
<FareWell> core!
<beholder> binEng: Any complaints about the wording of the message?
<lar1> FareWell:  I belive review links should go to me.  Unless core would rather take them?
<FareWell> kestudviendoudoudidon?
<core> farewell: plein
<FareWell> lar1: do you integrate stuff from review@ ?
<binEng> beholder: Nah, looks good.
<binEng> You can help me compiling a modest list of bloated/buggy/populistic/intruding Windows programs. Great fun! :)
<binEng> Observe: MS programs are out of the game.
<core> farewell: i saw that apparently tril and lar1 are intending to take over the OS review, sigh.
<beholder> Yes and so are office suites
<Fufie> bin: isn't that ls -R  on a windows-partition?
<lar1> FareWell:  Not as of now.  Is there sufficent traffic there to justify that?
<binEng> Correction, I guess any platform will do.
<binEng> Fufie: huh?
<Fufie> bin: the list of bloated windows apps
<beholder> Fufie: DIR /s... , but close enough ;)
<binEng> Fufie: heh, nah
<beholder> Fufie: I think any linux distro is bloatware.  What do you think?
<FareWell> core: not if you impose yourself as maintainer.
<core> farewell: i thought i've been maintaining this page for the last year.
<FareWell> sure. Looks good to me.
<core> if it's revamped without discussing it at all, i'm not going to bother maintaining it for sure.
<FareWell> now, CVS allow concurrent modification. Need for maintainer is only in presence of conflict.
<Fufie> beh: I am quite fond of rh 5.2 and I am thinking of ugrading to debian.. I have around 45G hd-space so I don't really worry
<FareWell> lar1: do you intend a revamp?
<FareWell> lar1: up to now, core has been an ok maintainer for OSes.html
<lar1> FareWell:  Yes, I thought it was knowen.  (TRIL, HCF and LAR1 plan on redesigning the reviewproject)
<core> i don't want to whine, but i don't like to learn things by parsing logs. it's an OK method for learning that someone's been looking for me, but definitely not when something i work on is going to be changed.
<FareWell> lar1: oh, if it's the general redesign, that's ok.
<core> we have half a dozen mailing lists for that purpose.
<lar1> FareWell:  Yes, thats all it is
<beholder> Fufie: I was thinking of red hat in particular... ;)  Debian is, I think, the nicest linux distro, but I think I'd rather just a kernel and boot loader and some basic utils... then I'll put what I want on.  I heard someone here was working on that
<Fufie> beh: I thought tthat was called slakware ;)
<FareWell> core: that's a redesign of the whole review thing, that doesn't change maintainers per se.
<FareWell> just an expected improvement in infrastructure
<Fufie> isn't more reviews needed more than redeisgn?
<core> farewell: well, that's still doesn't prevent people from talking about it first.
<FareWell> Fufie: concurrent aspects.
04:50pm
<beholder> Fufie: Yes it is :) Until the A set got too big ;)  I remember when the A set was one disk... that was the bad ol days when Linux was less stable than windows... 
<FareWell> core: the thing's been told about for long, but since no great step was made yet, no one felt to announce more of it
<core> farewell: tril vaguely told about wrapping the thing in a database but i thought the issue had been dropped. i didn't know lar1 was going to revamp all.
<FareWell> core: like all of tunes, things are not dead, just dormant
<lar1> fufie:  New reviews will come with the redesign
<FareWell> it is not dead, which can eternally lie
<Fufie> beh: back in 94 I think I installed slackware ad used it for a long time but it was a mess to maintain
<core> well, i'd rather have the OS page transformed last then.
<lar1> core:  It may well be
<lar1> core:  If you have a strong opionion I will do it last
<Fufie> lar: how about starting with the review part?
<FareWell> core: news about release of clem?
<core> i don't have a strong opinion, i just have a strong feeling of being useless.
<beholder> Fufie: It was. You had to impose your own structure.  I use FBSD now, and have been quite happy with it thus far.
<core> farewell: blah :)
<FareWell> :(
<lar1> Fufie:  A timeline restructure was done and I belive uis are first now
<FareWell> hum. Gotta goto sleep
* FareWell/#Tunes goto 3053
<Fufie> beh: uis?
<beholder> binEng: How are things going now?
<Fufie> lar: uis?
<lar1> core:  You will only be useless if you make you self so
<lar1> Fufie:  User Interfaces
<Fufie> beh: FBSD looks ok, and I had a go with OBSD on my 486 but I guess I am too used to GNU/Linux by now
<core> lar1: feeling useless as not being informed of things at all.
<Fufie> lar: imho content is more important
<lar1> Fufie:  Thats why we plan to add more reviws in the proccess.  We need to make it easy to do so first
<Fufie> beh: too bad sgi gave up irix, an intel port would've been nice
<FareWell> afaik, putting the review in a database shouldn't modify the current contents.
<Fufie> lar: it is easy now.. checkout, write and commit
<FareWell> not per se, anyway
<beholder> Fufie: Never used irix, but I did enjoy Solaris (please no flames, it was easy to use ;)
<lar1> Fufie:  And it will be easier still
<FareWell> hey, I used a N64. No flames: was easy to use.
* Fufie/#tunes gives beholder a bonk over the head.. Slowaris is bad :p
<FareWell> I even used a bed. Even easier to use
* FareWell/#Tunes really goto 3053
* Fufie/#tunes thinks he should head for bed as well
<core> sigh.
<lar1> core: Look.  I am sorry I didn't inform you.  You aren't useless, nor will you be.  You can help if you whish.  In fact, we would really appreciate your help
<Fufie> lar: it would've been nice if things were xml-ified and structured
<beholder> Fufie: Solaris is bad... but the machine it was on had a beautiful 20" monitor, and a neat looking optical mouse,etc.  It was more the experice that made me like the system.  I didn't buy the damn thing so I didn't care about the fact that it was $20,000 CDN :)
<lar1> Fufie:  Does phpified and structured work too? :)
<Fufie> php breaks with any kind of esthetique
<Fufie> it's butt ugly ;)
<lar1> Esthetique?
<Fufie> but practical
<core> lar1: sure; i don't ask anything else than maintaining the page I've been updating for a year and being informed beforehand before you do any changes to it besides fixing links (what fare does on a regular basis, and which is all fine).
<core> i don't think that's asking for the moon.
<beholder> I want the moon
<Fufie> beholder: ack, you should've tried irix instead.. and my redhat comes with a 19" monitor, 256 M RAM and 45G disk.. which isn't too bad
<lar1> core:  Its not.  And I will notify you before the page is changed.
<core> beholder: just make sure you don't try to reach it with vxworks :)
<core> lar1: let me rephrase: please inform me so i can change the page myself.
<lar1> core:  But the review project as a whole will offer a sort of open-maintaining system in which any TUNES member may add/modify/etc the database
05:00pm
<beholder> Fufie: Wow, nice system.  I'm using FBSD on my laptop (13" TFT, 2.5G hdd).  Maybe my experience could be better too :)
<core> lar1: yes, about 35 people wanted to do that over the years.
<lar1> core:  Well, testing will be going on at http://www.tunes.org/~lar1/review.  If you would like to be the one to upload the page, thats alright.
<core> lar1: i would.
* Fufie/#tunes gives beholder 300 XP for good role-playing and interest in Un*x.. did that help? :)
<lar1> core:  Ok, when I finish I will give the page to you so you can press the button ;)
<core> lar1: we have an understanding issue, here.
<core> lar1: i keep adding links to the page. once in a while, i commit it.
<beholder> Fufie: Well, 300XP doesn't go far when yer a 28th level mage, but thanks anyways ;)
<core> lar1: if you hand me a page, it will be outdated, and you will have to redo it.
<beholder> hehe
<core> lar1: if you want to redo the work several times, sure. otherwise, you can let me enter the data into the database.
<lar1> core:  You CAN enter data in to the DB... _thats the whole idea_!
<lar1> core:  I will hand you the page that interfaces to the DB
<core> lar1: so i don't understand your comment about pressing a button.
<lar1> core:  Meaning I will give you the page to interface to the db and you can commit it
<beholder> Hey, I'm not sure if you guys can help, but I'm looking to set a company up with some sort of shared e-mail system and a visual calendar system, is there anything free that would work for that?
<core> lar1: sure.
<core> beholder: there are plenty of cgi scripts for that online (like tcbworks, not the best tho :).. look on freshmeat :)
<lar1> beholder:  Workspot?  (I think thats the name)
<core> tcbworks does the job but requires a specific version of msql for one that we specifically have to keep around, which is very upsetting :)
<lar1> beholder: Err, I ment workspot has done somthing similar to what you decribed
<Fufie> beh: for a lowly cleric of the order of st.ignucius 300XP is a lot..
<lar1> core:  So are we cool now?
<Downix> core?
<abi> rumour has it core is developing a kernel-less, component-based OS, Clementine, and the XCOM file format (http://xcom.tunes.org)
<Downix> geesh!
<core> hey mr. downes :)
* Downix/#tunes wakes up!
<Downix> hey!
<core> downix: i handed your info over to the suits. something will come out of it :)
<Downix> core:  Alright.  This will be most productive.
<core> downix: i hope so, it's a neat project
* Downix/#tunes is still waiting the final specification from my hardware guy
<core> downix: sure, no hurry. you just know what we're up to now :)
<Downix> Alright
<core> lar1: is that important ?
<Downix> core:  Right now our sound arch is a bit of a headache.  Trying to make it as simple and effective as possible
<core> downix: don't know if you can demo on x86 or run an x86 simulator on mips or directly do the port (that might be quick, i have no clue tho)
<core> downix: make it sound (pff, bad pun :-)
<Downix> core:  Porting to MIPS is easy.  There are x86->MIPS asm translators
<lar1> core:  Yes
<lar1> Downix:  What are you working on?
<Downix> core:  But a demo on an x86 would work
<core> downix: well, that might go quick then
<Downix> lar1:  Extendible integrated computer system
<Downix> core:  We'll see, the rest of my hardware is the issue
<core> downix: you can have a demo on x86 tomorrow morning if you like. whenever. getting binaries to you is agreed already :)
<lar1> Dowix:  Neato
* Downix/#tunes nods, alright
05:10pm
<binEng> yeah, monochrome Windows!
<beholder> binEng:  Monochrome? Uck
<binEng> indeed..
<core> lar1: ah well.
<binEng> It can't even draw the screen right
<beholder> binEng:  It should default to VGA mode if it can't detect your video card 
<binEng> it did, but I changed it :>
<beholder> binEng: Did you install the newest drivers?
<binEng> I'm in the process
* lar1/#tunes bows head
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05:20pm
<beholder> bye all :)
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05:30pm
-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :))
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* kc5tja/#tunes sighs
-:- lar1 [LarMan@1Cust132.tnt2.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes
* kc5tja/#tunes is right pissed at GIMP right now... >:(
<lar1> abi: hcf?
<abi> hcf is the god of web-searching
<lar1> abi: hcf mail?
<abi> lar1: wish i knew
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<kc5tja> lar1: Yo.  :)
<kc5tja> do
<kc5tja> doh
<kc5tja> core: Hey..you awake?
<kc5tja> BTW, is anyone here familiar with the installation of GIMP?
>>> kc5tja [kc5tja@216.120.31.252] requested PING 945223160 907770 from #tunes
<kc5tja> Hello?
<binEng> hello
<kc5tja> Good grief.  I thought I was lagged to centuries here.  
<kc5tja> I saw all sorts of people chatting and no responses to me.  :-)
<kc5tja> Did anyone see any of my prior questions?
<binEng> the channel just seemed to die off.
<kc5tja> Yaeh...no kidding.
<kc5tja> It worried me because I thought my net connection was screwy.  :)
<binEng> doesn't seem so
05:50pm
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<kc5tja> wb lar1
<lar1> Ah.  This channel is too quiet, I had to come back ;)
* lar1/#tunes awaits Core, tril, fare, beholder's response...
<binEng> heh
<binEng> beholder left
* kc5tja/#tunes just waits for Core to return... :)
<lar1> Well, I still wait his response...
<lar1> core is here, no?
<kc5tja> His nick is here, and maybe he's here in spirit.  But in the corporeal world, that's another issue.  As of yet, he hasn't responded to me.
<lar1> My responce comment was in refrence to a mail I wrote
<lar1> Hes probly in deep thought writing nasty hat... oh I mean, he probly buisy :)
<lar1> air: Tu aqui?
06:00pm
<lar1> gotta go.  Be back later tonight
-:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving)
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<air> KC!!
<kc5tja> Hello... :)
<air> what up
<kc5tja> Nothing much.  Working on a few projects here and there...
<kc5tja> Just relaxing right now...
<kc5tja> And I need to fix Gimp somehow...
<air> whats wrong with it?
<kc5tja> air: 1) Run Gimp.  2) Open file.  3) Select <whatever>.gif.  4) Wait.  5) wait.  6) wait... 7) ZZzzzz....  8) *ahem* Wait some more.  9) wait... 10) ZZzzz....
<kc5tja> air: Then finally hit CANCEL in realization that it's just not gonig to load the file.  :-)
<air> does it load other formats?
<kc5tja> air: Yup.  Loads them just fine.
<air> do u have the gif libs installed?
06:10pm
<kc5tja> air: Yup.  It was working just fine two days ago... :(
-:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Downix[d-gnaps-117.ici.net])
-:- SignOff core: #TUNES (Read error to core[core.suntech.fr]: EOF from client)
<air> maybe they were corrupted
<air> which would explain why gimp pukes when u access them
<kc5tja> air: That's what I was thinking, but I don't know how to handle it yet.  If I elect to remove the libgif stuff, Debian's package manager will probably uninstall a whole crapload of other stuff with it... :(
<air> doesnt debian let u refresh packages?
<air> i know redhat does
<kc5tja> Yes, but their dependencies are **SO** screwed up that Microsoft's installation software runs circles around it in terms of intelligence (this never used to be the case).  I'm sorry, but Debian just plain sucks now.
* kc5tja/#tunes thinks he'll go back to Slackware, where everything is under manual control.
<air> i use rpm --force to install everything so i dont have to worry about dependencies
<kc5tja> The issue isn't with installing.  It's with UN-installing.  :)
<air> i use rm to uninstall
<kc5tja> I just did.  But now my package status database is foobared.
<air> have u used synapse?
<kc5tja> synapse?  Never heard of it.
<air> http://www.oreality.com/software/synapse.html
<air> some 3d gui
<air> just wondering if its worth playing with
<kc5tja> That's actually rather funny.  :)
06:20pm
<eihrul> why do you need a 3d gui?
<air> to make use of yer 3d card?
<eihrul> shrug
<eihrul> i have a 2d/3d card
<eihrul> so not a problem with a 2d gui :)
<air> i think a 3d gui with 2d overlays would be kinda kewl
<eihrul> maybe 3d widgets
<air> no 3d widgets suck
<eihrul> but having things like synapse does (rotating the 2D screens)
<eihrul> is of no use
<eihrul> its not like its easier to read text sideways
<air> that is not what its for
<eihrul> then whats the point?
<air> window navigation
<air> for ppl like me with 50+ windows
<air> a mouse interface like that in homeworld would make it really nice
<eihrul> ummm
<eihrul> a little menu provided like in Blackbox or FVWM works for me
<air> tasklist?
<kc5tja> brb...
<air> er windowlist?
<eihrul> yep
<eihrul> window list, two words
<air> all window managers have those
<eihrul> nope
<air> E and afterstep do
<eihrul> some don't
<eihrul> they're not all window managers
<air> yes they are
<eihrul> there is life beyond E and aferstep! :P
<air> no there isnt 
<eihrul> gah
<eihrul> i suppose you'll try and sell me a 0-buttoned mouse next
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<air> with E and afterstep i have to shade windows to get to windows behind them. and pulling up a window list and finding one of my 50 rxvt's (they are all labeled "rxvt") is much harder to do
<water> that's true
<eihrul> workspaces
<air> if i could rotate the screen then i could focus on a window without shading anything
<air> i have 6 workspaces
<air> each loaded with windows
06:30pm
<eihrul> why can't you have more?
<eihrul> 6 is too few for workspaces
<air> i put specific crap in each workspace and currently only use 5
<air> i want all my brix code windows on one workspace...
<air> is a cordless mouse a high drain device?
<eihrul> trackballs are more fun
<air> blah
<kc5tja> back
<air> does xfree support wheel mice?
06:40pm
<water> i didn't know that anything on linux supported wheel-mice
<kc5tja> Supposedly there's a hack you can download that'll support it, but I'm not sure what it's called or where to get it.
<water> hmmm.... "rumourware"?
<air> heh
<water> i hear it's all oveer the place, but i can never find a url
<eihrul> how does rumourware differ from vapourware? :)
<air> rumourware begins with "supposedly"
<water> because i always know somebody who knows somebody who's actually used the program or whatever or read about it in a magazine yada yada...
<eihrul> ah...
<eihrul> so vapourware are assertions about ones own code that does not exist
<hcf> http://solaris1.mysolution.com/~jcatki/imwheel/
<eihrul> whereas rumourware is assertions about someone elses code that does not exist
<air> thanks hcf
<water> of course, there goes hcf again, making ponds out of clouds!
<water> :)
<hcf> put in wheel in fm's search
<water> oh yeah
* water/#tunes is still quite the newbie penguin
06:50pm
<eihrul> okay, what exactly do you do with the wheel once its supported? :)
<water> you scroll and stuff
* eihrul/#tunes hmms.
<eihrul> arrow keys are better at that th
<air> no way
<water> nope
<eihrul> too tricky to move the wheel with your middle finger
<air> u have obviously never used a wheel mouse
<eihrul> or atleast the way my track ball is set up
<eihrul> (the wheel is the middle button as well)
<eihrul> plus it makes better use of parallelism (left hand uses arrow keys, right hand uses mouse)
<air> i dont know about this imwheel thing for xf but in windows u can click the 3rd button and then move the mouse to scroll in 2d
<air> its a toggle so u dont have to hold down the button
<air> and u can make it autoscroll too
<water> yeah
<water> i miss using that
<air> brb eating
<eihrul> mouses were never meant to be seriously used anyway :)
<eihrul> keyboard is far superior
<water> uh yeah
<water> sure
* eihrul/#tunes ponders... what if you put the mouse ball on the bottom of the keyboard
<eihrul> so you could mouse things around by just rolling the keyboard
<eihrul> without actually lifting your hands off the keyboard
<water> what if you put the keyboard on the screen? :)
<eihrul> too slow
<water> touch-screen
<eihrul> i doubt i could achieve my 100 wpm on one :)
<water> with some work, i'd bet you could
<eihrul> well, it'd be hard if the screen is perpendicular to your line of vision as it is now :)
<water> geez
07:00pm
<eihrul> if you put it where the keyboard is
<water> have some vision
<eihrul> then you'd have neck problems
<eihrul> and there's not too many other places where you could orient the screen/keyboard/thingy otherwise
<eihrul> perhaps maybe motion sensoring gloves :)
<water> maybe two screens in a clamshell
<water> a la laptop
<eihrul> again, neck problems
<water> the motion sensing gloves would have to give some sort of feedback
<eihrul> not very comfortable to look down at the screen and back up
<eihrul> okay, how about something like the twiddler then?
<eihrul> actually, one of those trackball keyboards probably work better :)
<water> hmm
<water> eek
<eihrul> since your thumbs rest right over where they put the track ball
<water> sorry, i hate those things
<eihrul> i've never used one
<eihrul> what sucks about them?
<water> trying to get any one of your fingers to be that sensitive and accurate
<eihrul> oh, so its just the track ball idea in general?
<water> no, trackballs are larger in general than those things
<eihrul> oh...
<eihrul> so the track ball is too small
<water> anything smaller than 3/4" is unusable to me
<eihrul> always those pupil-tracking cursors
<water> or a stylus
<eihrul> you have to move your hand off the keyboard
<eihrul> no good
<water> heh
<water> i use my stylus for my handheld to type all the time
<eihrul> the whole point of having a pointer on keyboard is that
<water> (only 'cause i have to)
<hcf> foot peddle mouse?
<water> but i don't like keyboards
<eihrul> hcf: how do you target them?
<eihrul> if only i had a third arm
<eihrul> no more repetitive stress injuries from picking hands off keyboard
07:10pm
<water> or rather placing them *on* the keyboard in the first place ;)
<eihrul> eh, are you saying you're not using a keyboard right now?
<water> no, i'm saying i don't like 'em
07:20pm
<kc5tja> gotta go..
<kc5tja> Talk to y'all laters.  :)
-:- kc5tja [kc5tja@216.120.31.252] has left #tunes []
07:30pm
<eihrul> hmm
<eihrul> lava looks conspicuously like L4
<water> heh
<eihrul> liedtke must be getting lazy...
07:40pm
* hcf/#tunes yawns
* water/#tunes stretches
<water> darn it's quiet... when do Tril or beholder show up?
<hcf> beh's been and gone
<water> today?
<abi> today is Kaufmann's father's birthday
<hcf> abi: forget today
<abi> hcf: I forgot today
<water> doh!
<water> abi: today is <reply>
<water> you made me re-do it
<water> :P
08:00pm
<water> hmm. almost a year's worth of irc logs now
<water> ack!  i missed core, too.
08:10pm
* water/#tunes is away
<water> g'nite
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<binEng> good night
-:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES ( <k!14>)
09:00pm
-:- lar1 [LarMan@dialup-209.245.130.235.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes
<lar1> Hey
<air> hey
<lar1> Hows BRiX, get that software raid and smp support working?
<lar1> s/,/?
<air> uhh
<air> software raid?
<lar1> You have never heard of raid implemnted in software?
<air> i wasnt aware that i was doing it for brix :)
<lar1> Sure you were... just like yer tcp/ip and gui that you have done.  Aw man I have a cough!...
09:30pm
<air> uhh ya
<lar1> You aren't getting this... :)  Oh well
<air> im currenlty running tests on my semaphores
<air> once i find this damn bug then my floppy and ofs will be done
<lar1> Whats the bug?
<air> not sure
<air> if i knew then i wouldnt have to find it :)
<lar1> I mean what is it not doing right?
<air> its page faulting 
<lar1> Hmm, this is a descriptive error... :)
<air> ok i will go into detail
<air> on the thread switch after creating a semaphore it loads some bogus thread state and page faults on the iret
<air> that is what i have found out so far
<lar1> Hmm
<lar1> Interesting
<air> it creates the semaphore just fine but fscks something up doing so
<air> i have a few ideas of what it might be
<air> oh man have u read slashdot?
<lar1> Dont do like me and forget to put BTYE or WORD :)
<lar1> Umm, yea...
<lar1> Somthing new?
09:40pm
<air> they have to have some stupid debate too see if they can attempt to create life
<lar1> Oh yea I saw that
<air> religious ppl are so lame that they have to stop any attempts which might prove them to be total morons
<lar1> If I were them, I'd say fsck that you are getting synthetic life whether you want it or not
<air> "Surgeon General Says 1/5 of Americans are Nuts" hehehehehe
<lar1> That was cool
-:- SignOff zarq: #TUNES (Ping timeout for zarq[9dyn204.delft.casema.net])
<lar1> air, I have a question about QAM, but it will have to wait as I have to go to bed.. I am tired
<lar1> later
-:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving)
09:50pm
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[209.94.148.242])
-:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat)
-:- SignOff air: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep)
-:- SignOff FareWell: #TUNES (Ping timeout for FareWell[quatramaran.ens.fr])
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.1215
IRC log ended Wed Dec 15 00:00:01 1999