IRC log started Fri Jan 7 00:00:01 2000 i should probably buy another monitor and run both graphics cards at once 8) I'm sick of this turns out the X server didn't compile [msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0107 lol grrrrr 39 pages left to go... eih: 39 pages of what? I'm about ready to grab an RPM heh water: a...p...ps I *HATE* RPM's eih: huh? fill in the blanks... oh heh you haven't read it yet? :) i've been playing with cmucl oh just reading leisurely i got sick of cl a while ago too many of the wrong features most of the features are built atop CL though its atomic feature set is quite small Ok, grabbing the RPM for it from the redhat 6.1 distro water: what didn't you like about it? i don't find it very fun to have to work with the core language becuase the lisp libraries suck * Downix/#tunes hopes that Amiga DOES open-source Workbench Give me a week, I'll never use X again squeak's code browser i find to be a single feature that none of the lisps ever equaled an entire GUI that fits on a floppy, sign me up yeah [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. it could happen :) (lisp code browser) It's a good chance that it will happen well, since dell sold amiga... er... gateway water: Dell never owned Amiga yep Hell, open source the 1.3 workbench sorry, i tend to confuse such bland companies me too though, i find it easier to work with grep, vim, find, locate, and ls 12:10am I just want a GUI that is not this bad then getting around squeak's code browser (though i confess and it is known that i'm a neophyte :>) yuck perhaps too many years of mudding has perverted me... squeak's code browser has most all of those tools, although regexp's i haven't tested on it even though squeak does support regexp's [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) cool, os x will no longer use modal dialog boxes dialog boxes alone are a crime not always if you treat them as interactive conversations, they can be pretty useful i.e. like morphs hmm, this resembles your other paper philo=intro sorry if i didn't make it clear Noone but Commodore has ever designed a smart system most of the new text hasn't been uploaded Well, until me 8) commodore? hmm, 25 vs. 45 pages though you added something not much, actually and this one seems like an easier read than the first :) i guess it's all in the presentation, then what was so good about commodore? water: well, isn't it? :) water: The Amiga oh i thought you meant the original commodores i really don't think of amiga as a commodore at all say Technically it's not oops, MUDDING tonight 8) like macs aren't really apples water: Not quite Amiga was an Atari by-product designed by Hi-Torro yeah, i recall reading that a while ago Commodore bought out the Amiga Corporation in 1984 i've only used an amiga once (for half an hour) Amazing,isn'tit? 12:20am it was cool, but i can't rate it * Downix/#tunes nods i'm not familiar with the internals I am i'm sure you are :) I dissected every Amiga I own just like i learned everything about my IIe say hehe There is a difference the Amiga does in 3 chips what the IIe needshundreds to do yes true but the IIe is a much older design working with cheaper chips Yes Ironic how the Amiga cost less than the IIgs did when it came out yeah Amiga 500 == $600 Apple IIgs == $1200 in 1986 mhm The original Amiga 1000 was not cheap by along shot, $3500 w/ HD, $2700 w/o well, we kept the IIe until 1990 I kept my Commodore 64 till 1992 I still have my Amiga 1000 of course I bought that in 1987 erm, 1997 i never liked commodores Commodore was ahead of it's time too bad they never got the hang of hard drives i still didn't like it not asking you to Apple was the future of the PC, clear to see generic parts to make a complete, if not fast system oh well Amiga is superior, but it's flaw was COmmodore hm.. mac os x seems to be pretty decent I tried out the server version, it's nice is it efficient? Better than MacOS 9 it's BSD after all also mach 3.0 they claim 12:30am [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. It is Again, better than theold MacOS how much of an advantage do they take of the uK modularity? Almost none I could see what a waste yeah Hmm maybe that's how they're legacy mac toolbox is supported lol s/they're/their possibly [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) * Downix/#tunes is pondering how to turn UAE into an afficient Amiga emulator for his hardware heh Well, the UAE basically is a VM, right? haven't looked at the code just bear with me it's a VM similar to BOCHS calling something a vm to me means a little more than to say it's an emulator but continue ok, what is the difference to you? vm's are usually more important than "what they emulate" * Downix/#tunes has yet to hear a good differential, since a Java VM seems similar to a PC emulator like jvm vs a java chip Ok Well, ok emulator then I'd like to be able to run legacy Amiga apps that way I get alarge library of software k I was pondering thedifficulties in turning UAE into an AmigaVM 12:40am [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. dunno similar idea to a Mac running SoftWindows or (more akin) OS/2 running DOS yeah, the second analogy is better right Since somehow I made a VM-friendly hardware design (dunno how I pulled that one off) making a speedy one should not be too difficult the risc-ish design makes it vm friendly? No, the using more primitive building blocks does hm ok allow me to explain let's take a fictional command similar to several PowerPC and x86 commands, let's call it addgrab it grabs a particularpiece of memory and adds it to another k [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) now, to do the same in a basic building block setup, you'd just fetch then add, right? yeah, that's risc by putting both into a single command, you may have sped up time a teensy bit, but the chances for pipeline collision increase, since now someone else may be trying to add, or grabbing, or whatever right plus the more complicated the command, the more gates you need, aka the more expensive/slower the design becomes [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net yes [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. Making things RISC and handing pipeline collision prevention to the compiler, I feel, will end up with a smoother design which, I'd note, is more flexible due to it's simpler nature those smaller blocks can be assembled in much more variety than larger ones so, you basically agree with me that it's the risc philosophy of the design that does it :) Right 8) didn't i say that? * water/#tunes scrolls You did yes. i did I just needed to straighten that out in my own head so why the long schpeel? ok * Downix/#tunes needs to do that sometimes np i often do too especially with arrow ok 12:50am weird... i posted to the tunes mlist hourse ago, but haven't gotten the mail bounced back yet i'll check the web index hmm [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) I really wish I could check my mail -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Leaving) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. -:- water [water@tnt-9-218.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes blarg! i hate windows Hehe, me too at least x is better than 'doze imagine if you had to port windows No way! heh yeah, i'd rather port some small language with minimal gfx routines than 'doze any day agreed [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) weird... no january 2000 index for the tunes mlist weird heh. maybe i'd better check 1900 lol oh wait it's at the bottom lol 01:00am seriously, in the html generated and in all the listboxes hmm weird hm. my mail hasn't reached the server yet but then, i cc'd it to tunes Can you tell me how to get emacs to run in VHDL mode? not off the top of my head but i'd say there's a 120% chance that someone's written a vhdl module for emacs Thereis I have it never figured out how to add moduled modules say... how specific is vhdl in formally specifying hw? Semi it can do any physical object really you can even design a level and pully system with it hm so, how much useful info could a software system reasonably extract from vhdl? quitea bit (btw, i haven't used emacs enough to tell you how to load the vhdl syntax module) and i can't play with emacs while online * Downix/#tunes nods ok enough to pipe to a code-generator-generator? Yes c00l i was hoping that was true yup now, the most complicated part of spec is i/o VHDL is cool * Downix/#tunes nods I/O for me is through 3 areas USB, Firewire and the local bus [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. nice choice... firewire i wonder if vhdl for that could be useful for a code-generation system? possibly 01:10am probably only in a tunes-like setting otherwise, planning i/o code-generation would be absurd -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn246.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes * Downix/#tunes nods hi smoke hi hey smokey [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) man, slow night * Downix/#tunes is downloading X Some RPM's *downloading* X? I got sick of compiling it and having it not work so I'm downloading it heh why don't you have a working copy? Well, last time I compiled it, something went wrong I could not run it in any mode by 24 bpp weird it was a problem with glibc RH 5.2 has a lot of problems when it compiles things 01:20am hm i have mandrake 6.5 good distro it seems to compile alright, although i haven't touched x I'm about ready to download a distro and install it Or switch to OpenBSD again how does openbsd compare to other bsds? it's slower but for security holes, there are none none? none that's quite a feature what kind of fs does it have? Noone has auccessfully hacked an OpenBSDbox through a built-in security hole since the 2.0 release FFS Not terriblyimpressive the OpenBSD people are not too innovative hm when they need innovation, they take from Net or Free well, maybe they'll grab one of the new candidates for linux fs's Most of them are GPL'd which they won't do *won't*? Right personal prejudice only bsd license hm Right heh. the only thing i can think of that has the bsd license are the *bsd's Agreed I don't like the BSD licence on a philisophical level, the GPL is superior yeah [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. unfortunately, any text-based license doesn't fit well with a good hll Yeah for instance, squeak has to write it's license in an included readme what is the licence like? it's similar to gpl ok forced giveback? * water/#tunes takes a look to see the fine details yes Alright that's the key point of the GPL I like essentially disney owns the name hrm? 01:30am they administrate the license OIC Talk about your micky mouse jobs a strange relationship lol Yes it's funny, becuase disney is using squeak to make interactive 3d games [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) cool the first one in september was part of one of their exhibit-thingies neat yeah, and ian piumarta has a JIT engine that when includeed in the vm with a code-generator, will speed up the vm by 3 8) cool I like MIPS they tested it at oopsla just a few weeks ago When SGI introduced their new compiler,MIPS benchmarks jumped through the roof cool all because it avoided mostof the pipeline stalls you don't need OOO, just a goodcompiler ah ooo? Out-Of-order k ya know, the Intel idea that programmers are idiots and can't optimize their own pipeline right well, intel chips are a bitch to optimize for but then, that's cuz the design sucks But IBM bought intoit Which is why PowerPC has it yeah i wonder if power3 has it Yup I hate OOO really? strange well, it takes predictability out of code-generation Right i have this pretty in-depth book on compiler optimization Say I want this function to synch with a function in my video with OOO it may not be where I need it to be * water/#tunes nods I'm going to need a killer compiler to make this work [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net your hw? absolutely [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. 01:40am * Downix/#tunes nods but if it's a risc design, it shouldn't be too hard to make one for it I know IF I can find someone to make it heh no thanks I've got a compiler guy already lined up that's good how hard are guys with experience to find? Very i can imagine Almost noone goes into compiler design anymore they go for e-commerce or web design [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) it's funny how the people who ask me programming questions at work don't have the first clue how to do *real* programming I know all they do is re-code the same simple algorithms for a new app lol it's true, though Iknow even when i'm asked to code at work, it's always a really boring solution complicated by the design of VB That is the highlight of my C code But I'm improving With LISP I'm provingmyself better k i honestly find lisp too low-level Well, it's the highest language I'm comfortable with yet it's nice to have a system like smalltalk where if you need a stream, you just make a Stream :) * Downix/#tunes laughs I've looked at REBOL not much higher-level than that Code in english 8) heh Must PO non-english speakers 01:50am you know what's cool? i can carry around all of my .tex files, the tunes.org html, the agt book, an online book on hyperset theory, and squeak (with my prototype code) on my handheld not to mention an in-dpth map of seattle cool! yeah You're in seattle? yep Cool, when I'm up therewe must do coffee yes, let's where are you? new Hampshire One of the VC's we're approaching isin Seattle i've been through there a couple of times oh takes money to make hardware hm. someone just updated the squeak web browser's agent cool yeah [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net i can't wait until MuSwiki is ready for beta-testing ok it's a squeak server program for sharing morphs [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. i.e. high-level shared work-spaces ok with drawing and everything * Downix/#tunes nods pretty much anything squeak can do ok much better than html I'll stick to my HDL's Well, as soon asI learn them actually, i have a screenshot ok (sorry, i'm a hopeless squeak plugger) it's ok hm.. where'd i put it I plug my heardware And the Amiga 8) yeah nothing wrong with that. hehe [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) 02:00am primitive put effective -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Ping timeout for water[tnt-9-218.tscnet.net]) anyone alive? -:- water [water@tnt-10-38.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes did you get the screenshot? yup I said "Primitive yet effective" what'dya think? ah yes, it's not for the newbie at all well, sort of agreed Noone IMHO isworking on improving the newbie's ability to handle things i mean, all you have to do is make morphs and put them into the muswiki window yup well, there are people working on squeak books particularly at georgia tech * Downix/#tunes nods the major problem is that the image code keeps changing * Downix/#tunes nods even morphic is in a state of planned obsolescence... it's going to be merged with a constraints framework which will be way k00l hehe imagine morphs bouncing on a trampoline in 3d 8) hehe [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net programmed to do so by an 8-yr old [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. lol seriously they're going to try to make using morphic very intuitive (eventually) 02:10am cool well, that's why disney took it from apple ok which seems ironic given apple's current ideas about making movie software * Downix/#tunes nods holy cow... someone just posted an article on the ACM studying why c++ sucks for writing gui's [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. what was their main arguement? mostly the static features of c++ agree there The problem is there is no right way to code a gui like type-checking, block-scopes, inheritance i disagree but then, i'm one of the few who has coded a gui in an hll [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net lackey.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) pardon, coded a high-level gui in an hll Well, I see the problem in that GUI's does not necessarily mean a pointer and windows [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: devlin.openprojects.net lackey.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lackey.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net lackey.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. I want a GUI that's morelike ST's LCARS system re-configures itself as programs open heh EMACS done right I call it 8) i had a primitive system tht was kind of like that oh? no visual candy, though ok it was a system that represented high-level semantics visually sort of a visual programming language in the interface itself ok * Downix/#tunes nods the dialog boxes were just dynamically-generated wrappers for function calls ok hmm Now I'm pondering how much work it would be to turn EMACS into a system like on ST i find emacs rather bloated Compared to X? pah.. emacs rocks on the other hand, i just generally dislike ascii-based interaction it should be rewritten in CL though water: I agree there. Fufie: You too Well, now this thought will burn in my head for awhile hehe what would it take to make EMACS intuitive? lol isn't EMACS intuitive? 02:20am rofl lol what is non-intuitive with EMACS? seriously Well, cntrl+ is not how people think mostly just learning how to use it it takes forever just to discover that a feature exists downix: how do "people" think then? Fufie: With symbols, visible symbols water: M-x apropos of course, there are millions of features, which makes each one harder to find right fufie: exactly downix: some people think in guis.. other people have keybindinings in their head.. guess which is faster Fufie: Faster, of course thekeybinding wins water: duh.. apropos is alos used in lots of other systems.. keybindings are NOT intuitive what systems use apropos? Fufie: But as Windows shows, people don't care about speed, they care about pretty GUI's keybindingins are intuitive and if you don't like them.. redefine them and how do you find out that those systems support aproppos? downix: emacs is not for windows-cluebies but for serious people with real needs.. e.g programmers fufie: now, you're just speaking unix-evangelism water: you rtfm() ? yeah, the manual that's six years out-of-date water: no I am not.. you mistake newbie-friendliness with user-friendliness * Downix/#tunes laughs Actually you're both right then you ask in the emacs group but I mostly am trying to move away from keyboards into speech recog fufie: i guess my problem is that linux won't talk to my modem, so i can't be online while discussing a linux problem water: Winmodem, huh? no, us robotics it's pnp i mean, pci pnp water: well.. some people don't find linux to be user-friendly either.. but it is damn powerful for the users who know it water: Like I said, a Winmodem fufie: but learning to use that power takes too much time Winmodem == a fake modem, uses the CPU instead of a modulation chip for the D to A conversion water: as for "intuitive" systems like macs and windows.. you don't even get grep in standard install.. fufie: a more systematic apprioach would be easier to elarn *systematic* water: it's a somewhat steep learning curve.. but does one write software for professionals or Joe Schmoe Public? downix: i know, but i thought us robotics modems weren't like that (xemacs have icons people can click ;) now you're insulting people who don't have 12 hours a day to burn on learning to use "powerful tools" water: Some are end-users deseerve power, too, for the money they spend should we have a society of idiots or a societyu where people try to learn? oh geez 02:30am a society where idiocy is forced upon all software is sad now you claim that cryptic tools distinguish intelligent people from others professionals needdecent software as well and newbie-friendliness is not orthogonal with user-friendliness usually you're just being a bigot and you don't see that i don't like "dumbed-down" software either I am not talking about cryptic tools.. I am talking of powerful tools no, you're talking about a powerful tool that is very cryptic is emacs cryptic? yes pah bigot :) find and troff is cryptic.. emacs is configurable and easy to use :) configurable in thousands of ways that must be searched to be understood which shouldn't have to be the case it forces you to learn it, which makes the user a slave to the program Help -> Customize the user is free to use pico or nedit instead ;) fufie: cryptic i didn't say those were better at all oh forget it :) you're just an asshole waiting to happen well, thank you like most linux bigots who don't think hll's are worth s*** * Downix/#tunes fears the day when Fufue puts on a white sheet and burns crosses on Windows users houses * Fufie/#tunes is baffled by this response downix: that will be the day :p water: emacs is written in a hll :) i thought it was written in c? personally, I like EMACS water: ever heard of Emacs Lisp? el is just an extension lang, though water: EMACS was written in emacs LISP for the most part I believe well, lisp is low-level anyway water: and that all configuration is written in elisp so you basically write in the same language as the editor is written in.. yeah, but it's still got low-level semantics just cause the language ain't c doesn't mean the programmers don't think in c downix: only a small core with some string-handling and X-communication is written in C water: so now RMS thinks in C? :) can't you parse a statement? Fufie: Ok 02:40am (although i don't like rms) water: your statement was vague within the context well, i assumed some intelligence on the other end of the terminal :P ;) thank you, again np any time i can dis a tuneser who thinks emacs is decent is a good time lol I have yet to see any comparable alternative to emacs though well, considering you're in tunes, it's your own damned fault lol name an alternative then tunes happens to be the only group that ever could come up with something better, so this is the last place for the excuse to come up squeak would probably be a decent platform for an emaccs-killer * Downix/#tunes nods but noone is making it but they won't come up with it on their own I see a lot of flaws and problems in emacs.. but I hate people who whine and whine and whine about emacs and have yet to read docs or come up with alternatives and i don't have time... have to work on getting arrow done reading docs is not a solution * Downix/#tunes nods reading docs is always a solution the alternative is to use another hll with a good interface like squeak I'm reading EMAC"s docs trying to learn how to add in VHDL no, because it takes every user reading the docs to educate those users too many losers, and esp. windows cluebies, refuse to rtfm() for some strange reason because the manual sucks!!! then rewrite the manual lol I bought a manual for it for a platform i don't like or understand? if you're not happy with the docs.. write your own for a platform i don't like or understand? for a platform i don't like or understand? which platform? ain't no way in hell emacs whatever.. if you don't understand it, it IS-A problem ;) myabe with emacs, or maybe not 02:50am * Fufie/#tunes yawns.. breakfast hehe well, that was interesting yes * water/#tunes pops in the Cult's greatist hits cd to keep the excitement alive ok no, it's not "ok", it's "rockin'!" :) lol hehe, ok ROCKIN! that's more like it! hehe c'mon, the cult rocks eh, they're ok * Downix/#tunes is listening to Ministry right now heh. i now have the entire hitchhiker's guides and arthur c clarke's 2001 series 03:00am k never listened tocult I'm afraid oh never heard "fire woman" or "rain"? don't think so wow I've heard Madonna's "rain" k * Downix/#tunes is talking about PowerPC to a bunch of Amiga-heads on DALnet k Noone seems to realizethat PowerPC is NOT a faster 68k mmm... g4-based amiga 8) what?!? what channel? i guess channel is overfull #amirc uh.. what's the dalnet server my config file is screwed up irc.dal.net thx the discussion's over, isn't it? which discussion= ? the one on dalnet about powerpc Forthe most part these two found out they lived a mile from each other and seem to me making arrangements for tea that's nice yup 03:10am ok, CPU convo is livening up yep dammit, X, download! The Amiga community won't know what hit them when we show up heh I need the right partners tho Of course we'll be donating machines to worthy efforts the amiga community is more autistic than squeak 03:20am Yup Which is one reason I am not considering them a main market heh * smoke/#tunes likes amiga demo i'll suggest a squeak port to the list as soon as you have an c compiler ready they port based on coolness factor +s hell, they ported to sharp zaurus just because it was cool * Downix/#tunes nods lol ok and i heard a rumour that two pda prototypes were circulating at oopsla99 and running squeak. they cost a couple million * smoke/#tunes hasn't had time to read the implications of the apple license that sits on squeak.. is it restrictive? lol not really, except that disney owns the name ok water; can apple take back any changes or so? nope ok what are the main differences with the gpl? apple sold the rights, and disney opened up the license (okay i should really read it myself) ok I saw alicence once that said "Yousteal this you will be circumcized by my dog, Sparky!" lol I laughedmy assoff yeah, the only problem with squeak licenses is that they have to respect font copyright, if they exist ok which is why they've been moving to free fonts lately * Downix/#tunes nods true-type, of course of course what kind of curves are used to render truetype and the tex fonts? downix: so it's safe to use it when the dog is dead? 03:30am beziers and cubics, i think think so but that's in the process of being changed ok fufie; btw - i have told a friend of mine about common lisp, and since 2 weeks he hasn't programmed in any other language :) and anti-aliased :) water; to what? i'll check * smoke/#tunes had just implemented a bspline routine the other day bsp? b-spline ok hm i have to put in anti aliasing too, but couldn't think of an efficient way yet smoke: hehe :) they're adding quadrics, but i don't think it affects fonts (it's for a demo) ok i'll check the source fufie; and i quote (freely) "it takes me hours to write 10 lines of lisp, but then again those 10 lines are equivalent to 100 lines of c code" lol smoke: with more experience the hours will be minutes :) * Downix/#tunes is trying to learn LISP hmm... well, text *fits* to any curve looking for the character renderer 03:40am Making a simulator in LISP will be fun ah.. quadratic beziers * Downix/#tunes feels like a guru to thsese Amiga-folk on DAL * smoke/#tunes wants to build a gui using lisp's object system yeah, you look it water; hum quadratic? no t^3 ? smoke: done it no, but it can be done water; what did you do? it's only a few lines of code i built a tiny lisp on top of a toy language and wrote the gui in that the gui was very-high-level sort of a visual programming language unfortunately, i lost the code when i dropped out of college and joined the military that was back when tunes was new * Downix/#tunes nods and i thought tunes wasn't going anywhere and wouldn't appreciate my code anyway :) the system had a good reflection system anyway... it acted like beta * Downix/#tunes nods lol ok but i didn't think it was worth it Well, Tuneskeeps drawing me back too i never even talked to a tuneser until a year ago hehe -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[15dyn246.delft.casema.net]) 03:50am wow. the entire ttf engine core fits into a small window that looks like pseudo code cool about 20 lines not including some good comments -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn104.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes yeah, i think cubic curves would be overkill for a ttf renderer hm just an opinion you'd need more control points with quadratic curves than with cubics, no? hm... yes hum hum 04:00am it'd be good practice to derive forumalae for quadratic curves what does a typical font editor look like for such fonts btw? for ttf? usually you get a set of glyphs that are edited as vector drawings no special tools? but it's been a while since i fooled around with that well, yes, adobe offers a lot of tools i think a few other companies offer editors too i have to build a font-editor too.. i couldn't think of anything more complicated than xfig i think i have an old adobe cd around somewhere with a good font editor southeastasiasoft, of course :) :) everything for $3 it's a shame they somehow wrecked their mathematica inventory oh great... i can't legally use squeak for developing apps at work why? the license classifies squeak as "restricted software" by us government stds although maybe it's changed http://www.iol25.com/mfreeland/wow.htm rofl that's just wrong lol that display is wayyy to small :) 04:10am it's in russia? it's large enough to irc :) yeah true well, so is my handheld :P and my handheld now has a 56k modem now, if only i had the plugable digital cam 8) it's fun to ask people if the commercial program they're using and advertising is open source :) it must be why do you mention it? smoke: open source is an evil concept oh all this license stuff.. if it isn't GPL, it's evil like bsd fufie; i use open and free to mean the same thing.. [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed roger (GHOST command used by roger_) smoke: the bank is open, but I can't go in and tak their chairs and money +e i dunno. having to make source code free via a license just makes me think that the code isn't worth being free fufie; speech is free, but no one's listening smoke: make every other sentence "bill clinton is soon dead.. hahahah" and people will listen.. though the wrong people is there a (internet-aware) group of people striving to get us out of capitalism btw? smoke: yes, capitalism is evil you mean like the young communists? i know. 04:20am well i think using the word `communism' is about the worst pr you can do sure although i like communism myself (not stalinism of course) in a free world, everyone writes lisp in emacs :) fufie; lol whatever the only capitalists allowed are those that make lisp and emacs systems i write lisp in squeak i somehow think that this whole life of working and working and working for no one and having no time left for doing something for others, is somehow a waste * water/#tunes strikes up "OK Computer" * Fare/#Tunes is back for a moment smoke: in capitalism you work for stockholders, in communist-systems you work for a pampered elite of losers Gakuk, Fufmann, smoke, water! water: a decent depressive choice of music :) fufie; (eq stockholders loser-elite) hi fare :) hey fare smoke: not depressingf if you have a clue smoke: in capitalism you work for yourself. perhaps i should've quoted here and there fare; no way smoke: no.. (equally-bad stockholders loser-elite) -> t fare: read the latest tunes mlist mail? the one on wegner's latest paper? yes i replied to it, but it hasn't reached the server yet for some reason fare; hm. i think you're right - you can work for yourself -partially - smoke: seriously.. there is a conspiracy.. :) * smoke/#tunes looks over his shoulder fare: i think that the content of "visious circles" would help with lambdaND ideas s/visious/vicious is "vicious circles" the name of Wegner's article? no, it's by barwise and moss but the two papers referenced in the post are also worth reading water: does your message give url for the barwise&moss paper? it's not online: it's a book but they have an online paper hold on, i'll get a url hmm.. solaris in the mail today :) 04:30am and star office Fare: here's a book review of it: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~akman/book-revs/vic/vic.html water: k hmm.. the slowaris license explicitly mentions that I can't use it to control a nuclear facility.. Hum. My partial debian mirror (latest i386+powerpc minus a few packages) takes 4.5G fuck proprietary licenses! i'm not sure even bsd can be used to run nuclear facilities Fare: here's a page on hyperset theory, at least, with links: http://pier.botik.ru/PSI/AIReC/logic/bst/bst.html with a lisp package, too 04:40am -:- simoz [simozml@pcrpd09.unipv.it] has joined #tunes downix: those guys on the amiga channel are really out of it hi simoz yup water, hi "out of it" ? what does that mean? -:- simoz [simozml@pcrpd09.unipv.it] has left #tunes [] unaware of what? * Downix/#tunes SOOOO wants to tell them tell them what? oh n/m they're probably just casual users * water/#tunes checks himself no, i've enver seen a casual amiga-phyte right er... phile -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn104.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn104.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes 04:50am * water/#tunes watches some tumbleweed roll past. funny your stuff on non-wellfounded sets: when I was in lycée (highschool), a friend of mine (also in high-school) wrote a paper on "abysmal sets"... abysmal? btw, i happen to like non-wellfounded sets because their representations form a more general class of graph aside from the technical issues already brought up was basically the same idea of non-well-founded sets as (unique or not) solutions of equations hm equivalence classes, of course 05:30am -:- Kaufmann [kaufmann@jobim.fluid.impa.br] has joined #tunes Foo! 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[openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed kenny (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed kenny (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- Void [x@193.231.238.40] has joined #tunes cool hello void hiall i never thought that i'd meet the one and only void in person 06:30am :) what's up? should I say it ... the sky I said it this channel about music? sigh.. nope abi tunes? tunes is a free reflective computing system at http://www.tunes.org or for programming languages what the internet is to networks or like flypaper for hallucinogenic programmers or discombobulated or obnubilated or AOTA hehe ooooppppps I was looking for guys that try to make music in linux it's ok i play music, but not using linux I use win??? no I didn't see any software for this in linux my friend has a mac never used one they've got a good selection of midi tools, etc so tunes is about programming? a programming language? yep. sort of I'm working with c++ (... and Java) right now an internet of programming languages, if you will ??? I'm confused well, no offense, but we consider those languages fairly lame mostly becuase to change the code requires a lot of programmer work and what languages are good? the computer doesn't do any work for you well, i happen to like lisp and smalltalk and self I want to get into game programming (i'm 18) and as far as I know C is the language for this there's also haskell and ml yes, c or asm never used any of these :( i've written quite a few high-performance 3d engines what are the languages used for then? mostly for dynamic systems ones where the user has more freedom like? to do what? well, you've probably never used one before i have a nice smalltalk system called squeak what does it do? it's a descendant of the original 1970's xerox smalltalk what does it do??? it asks like an os and programming systemessentially anything you ask it to do want a feature list? btw, the xerox smalltalk was the first gui, the one that apple copied it's progressed quite a bit since then, of course stuff i never knew there's sooo much out there the average coder never learns about 06:40am so it's an os/programming system tunes is an attempt to unify it ? yep unified everything in the system is an object no messy data-structures or pointers what system does it run on? squeak in fact has a feature that generates in own source in ansi c, so it's been ported to every major os i even can run squueak on my handheld computer a casio e-100 all linux systems, win, dos, mac, acorn, zaurus, beos, ... this is weird for me I have to see it abi: tell Void about squeak it has a lot of software in about 6mb a *lot* -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.103.165] has joined #tunes unfortunately, the docs aren't very good because development isn't stabilized.... too much going on at once but going through the examples should give you a good idea how did it start out? who started it, when? well, apple owned the xerox for a while then disney bought it and made it open source so it's open source? yep except disney owns the name they have programmers working full-time on it about 7, i think and they use it commercially? they're starting to, yes but it's mostly for educational purposs (eventually) and there's a very advanced just-in-time compiler system going to be integrated into it in a few months for a speed boost forgive me, but I still don't really get _what_ it's used for although it's speed is pretty good already what processing power does it need ? various things... web servers, midi, scripting system like i said, i run it on my pda :) it also has a 3d world scripting system 06:50am and an end-user programming system wowwww web browser, email, irc client (which sucks, oh well) just the irc client sucks, the rest is pretty good right now, though, squeak isn't ready for full-blown commercial development although it runs a decent web server keep in mind that there's still a lot under construction in squeak, although you have to dig to get to the bugs will it be/ is it in some linux distribution? windows? windows is probably a 32bit patch for a 16bit shell on an 8bit OS originally made for 4bit machines by a 2bit company that can't stand 1bit of competition heh no, probably not knew that one becuase it gets upgraded too often v2.7 just came out, and squeak is barely 2 yrs old disney happens to want to keep it platform independdent, so they don't have to worry about the target machine so, any computer with an ansi c compiler can make a new squeak the gui part then? well, palm pilot can't run squeak, but that's for technical problems what about the gui? you would need more than ansi c for the gui it's entirely written in smalltalk everything is written in smalltalk. only the virtual machine is compiled duh, but the gui written in smalltalk is written atop some gui library, no? no so how does it create the gui then? out of thin air? it's written on a blitted display provided by the vm 07:00am in a window, usually where does it get the blitted display or the window then? well, the vm calls the appropriate apis ahh.. so you need specific code for various apis :) then ansi c isn't enough yes, but the code added is extremely small which apis is there support for (svga-lib I know there is support for) ? under linux? dunno. i haven't looked at the linux port's code oh yes, and squeak can be run without a gui :P half of the point disappears with squeak/st w/o gui not really, it's still an excellent scripting library with file i/o, conversion methods, lots of algorithms, etc pipes sockets now let us see the source that's how the squeak web-servers run i'll look it up I have it here oh well, then :) (asshole) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com king.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) -:- NetSplit: king.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [07:06am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [king.openprojects.net] [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net king.openprojects.net -:- Netjoined: king.openprojects.net irc.linux.com -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.103.165] has joined #tunes [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from king.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net king.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. you're unbelievable yes, and you're a jerk for bugging me :) please be accurate and stop whining then i'm just pulling your chain because you're being an ass I thought it was arses that pulled stuff.. sure this squeak seems to use X though.. like i said, usually it runs in a window you said all squeak needed was ansi c oh god shut up it generates ansi c that doesn't mean that people don't add feature to it 07:10am e.g. an applescript plug-in have you tried compiling squeak with clean ansi c? it seems to use OS-stuff for most of the stuff you mentioned no, but i've heard it's been done which stuff? files, networking, sockets, pipes, joysticks, etc.. sound and that's most likely added by people afterwords this is the main squeak source :) no the main squeak source is made by the image you ass * Fufie/#tunes smirks why don't you ask instead of *ass*uming? you're really good at this stop whining don't take that attitude the code seems nice as c goes bleh... i must go to sleep well, seeya -:- water [water@tnt-10-38.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff mibin: #TUNES (Ping timeout for mibin[62.11.103.165]) 07:20am [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from wang.openprojects.net. 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[openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from wang.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- SignOff thomas: #TUNES (Ping timeout for thomas[193.217.63.152]) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed JamesL (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- thomas [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes hi hei how are you? has your studies started yet? still alive, and lectures haven't started yet.. (I am working on my thesis though) 08:30am and you? that's the kind of work you're never quite on vacation from right i've been working all week :| ouchie haven't had a chance to do a real test of your lang, it is in the queue though.. :-/ i've been designing a class hierarchy in php, which magically maps database to php-objects to html code ( for editing and viewing ) but we're not going to use it :( (send thomas 'sympathy) the framework became an overhead - actually it was me who pulled it off. Well, back to functionallish programming .) * thomas/#tunes brb 08:40am [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com norton.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net norton.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from norton.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net norton.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- bebo [user7361@cc211035-a.jrsycty1.nj.home.com] has joined #tunes Does anyone here know about Real Audio? -:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: TUNES, Free Reflective Computing System [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Keeperbotconsol (GHOST command used by tKeeperBoConsol) 08:50am -:- bebo [user7361@cc211035-a.jrsycty1.nj.home.com] has left #tunes [] [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Keeperbotconsol (GHOST command used by tKeeperBoConsol) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Keeperbotconsol (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Keeper (This nick is reserved by another user) * thomas/#tunes is back real-audio is nice, but mp3 streaming is nice too 09:00am [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed mwr (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net (Write error to adams.openprojects.net[216.22.214.118], closing link) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: devlin.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from adams.openprojects.net. 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[openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. !irq:*! wang.opn i think is the cause of the problems here !irq:*! or at least part of it [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed epitaph (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- SignOff iepos: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us638.javanet.com]) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us929.javanet.com] has joined #tunes [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net calvino.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com calvino.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from calvino.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net calvino.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- binEng [Anders@j141.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes -:- _ruiner_ [blah@ppp323.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for _ruiner_[ppp323.wi.centurytel.net]) -:- _ruiner_ [blah@ppp102.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Leaving) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: king.openprojects.net brin.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com brin.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from brin.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net brin.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net services1.openprojects.net adding GLINE for *@*.telusplanet.net, expiring at 947257505: Your domain is temporarily restricted from access. For more information, please email support@openprojects.net. fare? somebody said fare was sometimes looking at another screen and interruptible with a beep (/msg Fare ^G) or at http://www.tunes.org/~fare/ or connected through a crappy ISP (cybercable.fr) or pronounced Fahree 12:30pm [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed awkward (GHOST command used by awk) -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-266.ici.net] has joined #tunes the mailinglist archive has been struck by a severe case of post-y2k-syndrom how? check it out 12:50pm 1995 1994 1993 2000 :) The months are sorted in the wrong order, yes.. anything more severe? ok, years strangely, the numbers are output correcltly, i.e. ( 2000 =|= 00 ) yes that's strange.. 2000 is still > 1999 mabe y2k, was more a metaphysical fuckup ? hehe, yes what if 2000 !> 1999 any longer? :) oh my brb [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed misty (This nick is reserved by another user) 01:00pm -:- Chief [sabanmr@137.28.142.238] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Chief: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed talonix (GHOST command used by talonix_) -:- smiles [lol@137.28.142.238] has joined #tunes -:- smiles has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: TUNES, Assembly: not just for breakfast anymore :) heh * binEng/#tunes smiles * smiles/#tunes binEng lol lol * binEng/#tunes <-- still laughting hehee.. anyone seen the ads for the "new" show 21? guess not 01:10pm binEng: so what goes on here? here? in #tunes? business as usual. i'm thinking of joining the navy, anyone know if they have a good cs prog? nothing, huh? Downix: Yes. (As I said..) smiles: you sound a little US-centric :) exploring my options i'd like to move to europe now we're talking ;) Eng=england? in what context? ah no -:- binEng is now known as bineng are you from europe? Sweden. cool :) i've been to france how's sweden this time of year? kinda cold. and dark. what's the job market like for computers? great you MIGHT be a little biased, but is it a good place to live? I think so, yes, but again, that's just me. hmm Downix: you have an opinion? Never been to either place :) Downix: where are you from? bineng: are you in the computer business now? smiles: Not really, I'm a CS student me too! what you studying? well, CS. No special area yet. MSc what languages do they teach you over there? what OS's have you delt with? What kind of languages are we talking about? programming 01:20pm Umm, Lisp, Ada, C++.. you get to choose some yourself nice I've used Windows and some unixes cool om smiles: where do you live? usa erm, yes but where? by Minnesota on the border of Minnesota and Wisconsin if you can picture that ah, that's where a lot of Swedes moved * AlonzoTG/#tunes hurls a laser guided flaming woodchuck at bineng * bineng/#tunes takes cover (beginning to get used to the procedure) * smiles/#tunes smiles * bineng/#tunes sees double * smiles/#tunes smiles sees sees bineng bineng hmm how come no one ever deals with macOS? Anyway, smiles, you'd be welcome here.. Sweden is pretty high-tech on the whole sounds like my place! is it true that in europe the work week is like 35 hrs? about, yes. 40h But it's usual with overtime smiles: between 35 and 40 usually Fufie: where are you from it is not unusal to work less though smiles: Norway * smiles/#tunes likes the name Fufie smiles: Sounds.. fluffy, doesn't it ;) yes smiles: Do you know the geography around here? smiles: did you know that Sweden is the capital of Norway? Fufie: ;) no I did not i think you're lying :) hmm and we have icebears walking down the streets too! smiles: I am lying.. it's not the capital.. just a small city :) i know the geography pretty well over there Fufie: watch it! 01:30pm lol icebears? sounds interesting smiles: then you probably also know that scandinavians love mocking other scandinavians.. norwegians and swedes are probably the best at it ;) lol do you guys know any (dont kow the spelling) ollie and lena jokes? I was just going to inform smiles about the feeable intelligence of Norweigans * smiles/#tunes :) * Downix/#tunes nods we don't have ollie and lena jokes in Norway sounds finnish Which is funny, since the norse and sweedes live on a penninsula that looks like a large impotent fallus om lol downix: that's true.. that's why we used the viking age to go abroad and rape nuns to show you wankers that we're not impotent ;) heh Fufie: lol guess you proved your point I can't see that in the land form. The Baltic sea, however... lol what's the temp like out there go ahead and give it to me in C if you like 5 or 6 degrees celcius A little colder here that's not too bad above freezing We've had the worst ice cover on the streets here :( Crappy weather if you ask me. [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Ravi (This nick is reserved by another user) not for the icebears heh, right. do swedes keep icebears as pets? indeed, to scare away stupid foreigners ;) how warm does it get in the summer? * Downix/#tunes laughs ahh.. that explains why all the tourists come to Norway :) smiles: 15-30 degrees Fufie: They do not! Same here Norway, land of fijords, skiing and the norweigan m00se a friend of mine went to sweden and said the bars were pretty good That's *Swedish* moose, punk! hehe lol I'll stick to the North American moose myself Downix: you never said where you were from 9' of pure stainless steel it feels like when you ram into them in your car/truck I didn't know you had any? smiles: USA 01:40pm where in the usa? smiles: the US is the same place we shipped all the poor, religious nuts and losers the poor got rich though suckers you sent out the wrong boat the religious nuts remained religious nuts indeed and the losers were shot at OK Corral :-) i dunno what you guys are talking about....yeah i do i wonder where good old bill gates gets his roots bill gates should've been an australian.. the brits sent the convicts to australia sounds about right Did you know Sweden actually had an american colony once upon a time? Fufie, do you know if Norway had? (or Denmark?) denmark/norway had a few islands in the caribbean really? I had no idea there's another place i'd like to go a norwegian was consul over the islands until the king got jealous of his wealth and executed him.. Fare: When was that? uh no Fufie... the norwegian consul was three or four times richer than the royal family at some point :) maybe the norwegian royal faily wasn't so well off ;) * smiles/#tunes starts drifting off to sleep the danish royal family When did all this occur, then? 18th century I think Fun to talk old memories, ain't it? ;) I think the danes lost the colonies in 1814 -:- santana [santana@200.223.125.53] has joined #tunes it's important to know the history 01:50pm history=good to a certain point, yes But if you begin looking at places like Israel, no. what's wrong with Israel? -:- SignOff santana: #TUNES (changing servers) Their (and the arabs') history prolongs the conflicts there. bye santana * smiles/#tunes nods history can't be everything.. but enough on that yeah, what about the memories :) 02:00pm tum te tum la la la hmm hmm [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed dan (This nick is reserved by another user) is going away now bye bye all ciao nice chatting about norway and sweden later Downix yup :) and don't be so down all the time be Upix =) -:- smiles [lol@137.28.142.238] has left #tunes [] 02:10pm Anyone who wants to read a little piece on the need for a system based on a meta-metamodel I'm just writing? mail it to tunes@tunes.org it's not that serious mail it to me at stig@tunes.org then right away bineng: sure... It's nothing revolutionary revolutions suck there we go Fufie: well, they kill, more often than suck... eihrul: you too, you say? * eihrul/#tunes nods. I can guarantee (almost) this won't kill anyone eihrul: address? dcc? bineng: hows ur vm-thing coming? eihrul: k bin: it's long.. give me some time hcf: well, I'm awaiting renewed inspiration Fufie: it's kinda light reading, but sure many long words semantics-oriented metamodels big software conglomerates denotation :) Swedish huh? it is in the text * bineng/#tunes gives Fufie the blink tag I understood that afterwards you're at the prism list as well how d'ya like your blink tag? ;) hmm yes, are you? 02:20pm yes, after jim cross-mailed today ic -:- endsley [cendsley@wall.logx.com] has joined #tunes -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn104.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes hi lo I pretty much got stuck on this now.. :( -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes can hardly remember my point, even you had a point? think so ok 02:30pm hmm. Anyway, anything of what I have so far I should change? nothing I could see typos? hey Downix, you never saw anything, now did you? Nope * Downix/#tunes was busy eating some Ramen * bineng/#tunes farts in the general direction of Downix. ok Downix: Don't expect anything fancy ok brb 02:40pm -:- SignOff zarq: #TUNES (Ping timeout for zarq[10dyn174.delft.casema.net]) -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) back. I see I didn't miss so much * bineng/#tunes wonders what everybody is doing * Downix/#tunes is browsing for pr0n pics of Pat Buchannan. j/k heh [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: devlin.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) Oh pat, you sexy devil, say something stupid, you know that turns me on! 8) 02:50pm [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: devlin.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from adams.openprojects.net. -:- endsley [cendsley@wall.logx.com] has left #tunes [] [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@207-172-50-83.s337.tnt7.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes wb Alonz om 03:00pm [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: devlin.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: devlin.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from adams.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net services1.openprojects.net adding GLINE for *DBB@*.splitrock.net, expiring at 947268389: Your domain is temporarily restricted from access. For more information, please email support@openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net G-line active for Guest03439[SANTB108-30.splitrock.net] looks like I never got any response 03:20pm -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us321.javanet.com] has joined #tunes [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Keeper (This nick is reserved by another user) I don't know how to take it how to take it? your file 0m? you know, text editor/viewer? * Downix/#tunes nods AlonzoTG: Just a little something I wrote on a fundamental software problem [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: devlin.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from adams.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. 03:30pm -:- smiles [lol@137.28.142.238] has joined #tunes Downix: Maybe you're not into the model/metamodel terminology and all that. wb smiles ty nope only got a min...just thought I'd say hi and bye =p still cold in sweden? =) Downix: Sorry, it was intended for the Prism mlist and I didn't care to explain that. :) smiles: you bet good, well see you all later...prob, sund =p bye bye -:- smiles [lol@137.28.142.238] has left #tunes [] 03:40pm [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) bineng: read the mail interesting perspective thanks (on both points) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: devlin.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from adams.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. I see no mail, though I must think some more before I answer ah, I read that as if you had already sent it 03:50pm Gakuk I'll send it to the Prism list later if you rather want to respond there hi Fare send it to prism http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,33395,00.html oops Fufie: I'm still interested in types etc. typos ;) a typo in 'typo'... hehe http://www.hardcoreporn.com/news/sexology/0,1282,33395,00.html oops heh delibrately Fufmann: yes? oh sorry.. it was a typo for bineng downix: on your mentioned page it says "vaporware" and "amiga" almost in the same sentence.. they're a wicked gang :) Fufie: I know. hehe Amiga has more lives than Kenny McCormick I think Tom.. the hero cat in "Tom&Jerry" envies Amiga all those lives lol and Tom knows all about rebirth, resurrection and second coming there is lol you know why people fear the amiga? Because it's the Reagan of the computer world. Shot, comes back. Cancer 5 times, comes back. It's Jason! -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.102.105] has joined #tunes 04:00pm the whining about "the amiga is best" when the IBM PC won the day was unbearable.. the same screaming kids would make life a true hell if the Amiga actually should win.. Linux screaming kids will look pathetic :) * Downix/#tunes imagines a boing ball with a hockey mask on * Downix/#tunes laughs You're right there "WHAT DID WE SAY!!!!" :-) "AMIGA is l33t!!" Talk about an "I told ya so!" om I think the greatest thing on earth would be to be a gay software developer reviving Amiga.. think of all those groupis :) +e lol! Make Mac heads look like cub scouts ha you know if there are any cute boys in the amiga crowd? ;) =\ Fufie: Quite a few maybe I should apply for a job at Amino then lol [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: devlin.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net (Write error to adams.openprojects.net[216.22.214.118], closing link) uhh, are u 2 gay? [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from adams.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. quake 1.08; 17038935016; start trying 90 secs after I /quit and retry 3 times at 15 second intervals.... is that supposed to be an IP? hmm telno, I can't launch quake under 3.11 no matter how many .dlls I download. =((( q1? get q3 u luser 170.389.350.16? My computer can barely run quake... =\ air: He' air: He's running DOS AlonzoTG: I know how it is or maybe 17.038.935.016 bineng: try 1(703)893-5016 bineng: call him LD ah when you dial a modem you just type all the numbers out in one string... I thought everyone had cable and static IP by now? :> bineng: Iwish I can't use that with DOS quake. bineng: only dynamic ip :( static here I've static too. Two. 6 04:10pm but there are dynamic dns-servers so it's the same address air: not bad air: do you have computers for them? bineng: yup i have more comps than ips nice boxes? yup they can all play halflife lol do you have use for 'em all too? yup om bineng: hey do u know when the napalm is coming out? hm napalm? 3dfx no I was messing with my quake setup last night and I discoverd that modems (mine at least) has BUILT IN ON-LINE HELP!!! =P 1 billion pixels per second cool that's a joke twice the speed of the nvidia geforce256 like ATS$ gives you a list of modem registers. AlonzoTG: my courier has more help then yer modem air: You mean the VooDoo 5 air: I guess you like HL.. I've got opposing force if you have not Downix: 3dfx had it listed (code-named maybe) as the napalm Downix: at comdex air: THat's VooDoo 5, EXPENSIVE try $800 per card bineng: i have OF too k Downix: is it out????? air: No. damn i will have one when it comes out :) $800 for a card that is more hype than hope it has a faster pixel rate, but a slower polygon count $800? That's pretty much too expensive ;) do u know the polygon count? air: 100 million 100 million???? the geforce256 does 15million 7 times the speed for 4 times the price so how is that overpriced? air: And half the speed of the VooDoo 5 for 1/4 the price air: PSX2 -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z!) 04:20pm * AlonzoTG/#tunes suspects nanoguy is on-line... -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) Downix: how do u know the v5 will be $800? air: Cuz the V4 is $100 air: The "V5" card just has 8 V4 chips on it how do u know this? 3Dfx explained that in their review of it the napalm was suppose to be a single chip The Napalm is, and gets 18 million polygons a second but it'll be implimented in multi-chip setups, which is why they can say "billionpixels per second" because it's true, in the multi-chip config wtf, the geforce gets 480 million pixels and 15 million polygons it's because 3Dfx knows they people see big numbers and go wow, and never read the fine print 04:30pm what is the pixel rate of the v4? hmm.. mail queue reduced to four mails :-) I have a Riva 128... ;) air: a billion, the pixel rate doesn't change when the # of chips does [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) so the v4 gets 18m/1g and costs $100? that beats $200 for the geforce's 15m/480m that's what I believe the article said [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from wang.openprojects.net. it does beat, but not as good as they want people to think [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. its still 3 times faster than what i have now Not a radical improvement tho what are polygons for? uhh, u dont know? no Fare: To draw a 3D image you need to use polygons (fast) Raytracing (good-looking) or Radiocity (balance between the two) what is 3D for? Fare: I don't know heh (it's radiosity) oops * Fare/#Tunes likes lode runner champ and xmris Fare: Who are you and what are you for? ;) bineng: I am not, and therefore I cannot be for anything. Well spoken. Or maybe you didn't, if you are not? I _am_ not, but I _do_. Are you what you do? no, because since I do, I would be. But you're not? [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Zagreus (This nick is reserved by another user) 04:40pm hjmm -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: devlin.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from adams.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. hmm Downix: btw u are wrong about the v4 doing 1 billion pixels 04:50pm v4 = 337-367 Megapixels per second v5 6k = 1.33 - 1.47 Gigapixels per second air: Oh,ok what about having something decent to display? damn, it has 128meg air: I know I hadn't read the spec in a month Fare: quake 3 You call that decent? air: Is that 128 MB in video memory? bineng: ya wow http://www.3dfx.com/prod/voodoo/newvoodoo.html ok 128MB in video memory? More than I have in main memory :( hmm, i wonder if any OSes use AGP video memory as main memeory I think it's a good trend that they increase video memory size rapidly.. will force up the memory use in normal PCs then when u arent doing 3d u could run programs from some of that memory all PCs bought today should have at least 256M RAM but all they care about is processor speed :-/ * Fare/#Tunes remembers a friend writing code that executed in video memory as part of a cracker-protection mechanism * Downix/#tunes laughs unhappily, that wasn't portable, so he eventually removed that protection step cracking and anti-cracking are fun stuff. I wonder what it would look like to have a program actively use the displayed video memory for calculations 'n stuff lol bineng: ever seen these in-video-memory corewar variants? not sure what you mean, not ordinary corewars? dunno. I never tried "ordinary" corewars. hmm.. the link from /. to the article about feminist CS is kindof funny :-) next thing, they'll demand that nude females be replaced by nude males in all porn sites. * Downix/#tunes laughs [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed compwiz (GHOST command used by compwiz_) * Fare/#Tunes is reminded of Richard Dawkins' nice take on fundamental difference between male vs female, in "The Selfish Gene" hmm it's an essential difference in strategy: safe long-term investor (female) vs high-risk short-term investor (male) * Downix/#tunes laughs 05:00pm and gene pressure will increase any initial difference * Downix/#tunes laughs so that you'll end up with well-differentiated sexes, when you initially had undifferentiated mieiosis it seems as if the feminists aren't happy with 'computer ethics'.. maybe ACM should have a seaparate charter for women separate quote "The Internet and the World Wide Web are actively and aggressively hostile to women. We are intimidated by new technology." hmm In a male-dominated world, females will be intimidated wherever they go Fufie: I sent the mail to the mlist, I mostly added a little stuff to the end. an considering the basic strategy difference, _of course_ men will be aggressive. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: devlin.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from adams.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com huxley.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) it's their genetic raison-d'etre [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. lol [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net huxley.openprojects.net hey, water on the mlist is criticizing people with crazy ideas! ;) _our_ water shutting people's mouth because they speak approximate nonsense! I'm glad we did what we needed to keep him. It's entertaining reading Downix: btw the v5 6000 is only 4 v4's, and the v5 5000/5500 is 2 v4's Ok, I'm finished here for tonight. Goodnight to you all. goodnight ok 05:10pm -:- SignOff bineng: #TUNES (sleeping <k!14>) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net huxley.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed dunham (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com huxley.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from huxley.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net huxley.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@207-172-50-83.s337.tnt7.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from wang.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. what is a SKU? 05:20pm Downix: v4=$180, v5 6k=$600 still not really worth itIMHO ya it is i'm just curious as to why they dont publish the polygon count pixel dont dont mean shit if u cant do the polygons likely they don't know polygon count is pointless in the end it's how smooth the polygons look that counts what?? it's like Mhz the more polygons the better the object looks Some people throw Mhz and RAM at a problem air: Toy Story used no polygons, it looks better than any 3D game It was RayTracing Polygons suck. Using RayTracing or Radiocity, you'll look better than any polygon-based object Radiosity polygons require less space to store an object shape yes, but that doesn't make them better that's like saying "MPEG is better than film" which is total BS or DVD is high-quality People buy into what marketers tell them but that israrely the truth in wut rezolution iz stuff stored on DVD? AlonzoTG: 640x440 hmm... wait, doesn't it also store letterbox resolution? it does, but that's 640x390 =\ wouldn't that be like 900x440? SuCkEy AlonzoTG: Nope 05:30pm wHaT WiLl ThEy TrY t0 CeLL Us wen DTV comes closer? DVD-2 Which debeuts this fall lacks backwards-compatability C00L... Is that the same DVD disk type or will I have to get yet a dvd 2 drive? a dvd-2 drive where can I find the specs? You won't I know about it only from rumor "backwards-compatible: if it's not backwards, it's not compatible" How much crap does it store? same amount uses a new encryption method wait, and I need a GNU drive for *THAT* ???? yup I'm talking DVD drive not player... down with IP! AlonzoTG: Yes, a new drive. They store the data differently * Fare/#Tunes would like France to ban IP. but it doesn't increase the volume stored. =((((( Nope if there's but one country in the world that drops IP, every other country will have to, too that's the strength of freedom! it's contagious! that is so fantasmagorically L4m3 Fare: The world will degrade into total anarchy and chaos as the economy collapses. People will have to *gasp* cooperate economy collapse? that's an oxymorin! hehe frauds may collapse, and should. economy cannot, and won't Fare: The way most people think about the economy will change dramatically we're part of that happening sooner and better yup * AlonzoTG/#tunes is soo libertarian. yehaw!!! A new 'standard' to hack!!! * Downix/#tunes is not a libertarian hey, the prez of the liberal party wrote me (hint: in France, liberal is liberal, it's not far-left) I am for liberty, but not for the dissolution of the grand community it is liberty that makes a community * Downix/#tunes nods lack of liberty makes lots of mutually fighting slaves That's a problem that the US Libertarian party forgot (witness totalitarian concentration camps) (witness what remained of the yugoslav "community" after 50 years of communism) * Downix/#tunes nods yugoslavia is a special case no it isn't yes it is or rather, everything is a special case but it doesn't contradict any law of nature then yugo is a very special case how was it? 05:40pm the hatred that was created was not due to communism or totalitarian system part of it was nor to liberty totalitarianism amplified what existed it was about local crooks who had an interest in conflicts and for foreign powers 1) these crooks were the direct heir of totalitarianism 2) (equivalently) totalitarianism prepared there venue everyone "wanted" the balkan after tito fell the germans and the french bear a great responsibility in what happened 1. not all of them.. * Downix/#tunes nods Fufmann: opportunity creates the robber. Fufmann: totalitarianism created a gaping opportunity opportunity also makes room for inventors and entrepeneurs but without foreign backing the explosion on balkan would have been much smaller Fufmann: opportunity makes itself fulfilled. germany in particular was very active as do the Ottomans Fufmann: sure. Again, the germans and french bear great responsibility Ottomans were long repelled when it started over in 1991 and the russians who were on the other side yup Fare: I'm talking the origibalk cause ofit but the western europeans also bear responsibility in the russian disaster the french position on balkan I have never really understood.. I get the german position, but why would the french mess around down there? downix: the ottoman thing is mostly a pretense Fare: True what was the french after? Fufmann: like all people, the french don't give a damn. However, like all politicians, french politicians (esp. those ambitious enough to become prez) just want to "be there" yes, but was there any ties in particular to balkan or was that ya place to wreak havoc? so if the yugoslav are to break down, the prez will "be there" and applaud/encourage/whatever the breakdown Fuf: ties were long forgotten the germans had a deal with slovenia and the croats and had worked down there since the 80s Fuf: the only ties that really mattered were the current german and russian ties or maybe france had to participate because the germans were there.. and the german were interested in a broken yugoslavia constant rivalry.. Fuf: the germans had ties, and the french were tied to the german germany wanted a broken yugo, yes because the french politicians are basically corrupt and cowardly, they followed the germans ironically.. italy seems to have been active as well.. helping the germans.. something just occured to me but italy has been a constant mess due to albanians because the prez is rooster-like, he raised the stakes to (appear to) do even more than the germans 05:50pm isn't that a thing french presidents do very well? that's their raison-d'etre from the nostradameus predictions, france had napolean, germany hitler.... in another 50 years the next one of his villans would be in Russia fare: *smirk* :) from the nostradamus predictions, everything that ever happened was accurately predicted, and everything that's yet to happen was also correctly predicted, but just inaccurately interpreted the irony is that these conflicts creates room for scandinavian diplomats.. that's the way astrologists will put it Fare: hehe "First thing, let's kill all lawyers" maybe diplomats, too scandainavian diplomats always hang around when conflict is imminent or post-conflict.. to clean up on special assignment for the UN, NATO, EU, whatever after all, they are but international governmental lawyers i wonder why the correct interpretation is choosen after 'after' anarchy now the big question about balkan is however.. what did the brits do? :) hehe hey, in the Slefish Gene, RD also explains why the lawyers are the cause of divorces (and other affairs) being so harsh and wasteful europe did almost nothing europe did a lot.. messed up a lot.. that's what we do.. because lawyers are forbidden to serve both sides, but are bound to serve only one, and thus live by making other people conflict true, sigh* we're a lot of countries with different interests to make sure that we will mess up polarizing people into conflicts is their very trade (all the more in english/american judicial systems) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) they are a typical kind of parasite, that live by wasting other people's ressources. bleeding heart 'liberal' politicians *AND* ultra conservative rligeous fundies... I say Shakespeare put it right, "Kill all the Lawyers" ATG: don't use 'liberal' here basically kill everybody who cares enough about what other people do to infringe on their freedoms.... only in the US is 'liberal' a word for what is called 'socialist' anywhere else in Austria, 'liberal' means 'neo-nazi' liberal in the US is more like a socialdemocrat socialist... okay I'll try to use that word... in Japan, it means 'conservative' it's rediculous well, as far as parties are concerned, anyway sjirinovskij or whatever the russian is called, has a liberal party.. in France, we have one tiny liberal party, that's so heavily compromised with the conservative it's never had any credibility * smkl/#tunes voted today smkl: what kind of election? president so who did you vote for? * Fare/#Tunes suggests fortune -m 'Douglas Adams' [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. * Fufie/#tunes is going to vote for RMS as president of the UN Aho Fufie: Not a bad idea Sethi, and Ullman, too the whole dragon book hmm downix: the only way we could make the UN less efficient is to force everyone to use emacs and then everyone will use years to configure their .emacs files Fuf: so that at least the UN will do one positive thing, this time: produce better emacs configuration! mean there are .emacs files? 06:00pm =(((((( Fufie: Actually, that may be a blessing in disguise. Once they've learned EMACS, they'd have a universal language man, I'm soo glad I don't use it. fare: no.. they will just fork the Emacs project.. instead of GNU Emacs it'd be UN Emacs Downix: not so, because there would be FSF Emacs vs XEmacs vs whatever Emacs Fare: True But GNU's Not UN! GUN Emacs for the NRA people [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. lol om btw, is there a Gun Club in Baltimore? -:- lar1 [arkman@dialup-209.245.135.201.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes Hey there is a gun club in every american village with more than two houses Some of Jules Vernes' heroes are members of this Gun Club... 0m. (they shot a inhabited missile to the moon from Florida) hmm [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed gxam (GHOST command used by gxam_) they made a game about that.. only they shot it from Paris in that game hmm part of a world exhibition what was inhabiting it? nice game martian dreams I think it was called (they went to mars in the game) freud, tesla, buffalo bill, rasputin, etc was aboard the rocket in the game :) ten years ago I think it was reminds me of a joke: Stalin, Hitler, Roosevelt and the Pope fly over Poland. Suddenly, their plane is caught in a storm and crashes. Who is saved? Who? Roosevelt? can't you guess? the world The world? rot13'd answer: Cbynaq Cbynaq? rot13? Damnit.... hold on.... I don't want to that in my head ;) fare: why was he saved? smkl: almost. But the answer has to be previously named in the riddle [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) then Poland :P Fufie: Downix: quantum3D will offer cards with 8-32 vsa-100 chips and 128meg to 2gigs of video ram :) smkl: yup que? Fufie: it escapes slavedom air: so? im gonna get one with 32 chips and 2gigs :) * Fare/#Tunes laughs at SGI workstations of the past * Downix/#tunes laughs Fare: An SGI will still toast it. 8) Downix: not by much, will it? can the sgi do 10 billion pixels per second? 06:10pm * Fufie/#tunes actually liked irix Fare: By quite a bit much better than slowaris air: It's not pixels per second,it's on frames of 35mm film per second * Downix/#tunes likes IRIX [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. air: Can the VooDoo do direct film rendering? my 1-color 1-pixel 3D display can do infinitely many frames of whatever large film per second as if i have a need for that air: that's besides the point [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) can the sgi take a piss for u? nope [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed moss (This nick is reserved by another user) so its totally worthless a VooDoo card can piss for you? air: that's besides the point lol * Downix/#tunes thinks air has no real clue what he wants, only thinks bigger #'s are better 1234432579597! who says more? I do! 99999999999999999! 06:20pm 999999^999999999 :ppp ack(12873456281347,1298476234986)!!!!!!!!!! sqr(99999, 99999) s/sqr/pow/ 42 ;) Water would be pissed if he was here can any of you tell me a pythagorean tern bigger than 660 779 1021 mibin: six times nine hmm, do you know what i mean? yes six times nine is 42 which should be the answer really simple when you think of it ahh, that was a question? programming is much easier when you get the hang of it [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. i thought you was answering or something double cos(double val) { return 42; } eases implementaion considerably høhø hmm, are you drunk? no.. just really tired.. I'll go to bed.. goodnight night nites * Downix/#tunes yawns where are you, downix * lar1/#tunes scours the web for stuff ? 0m I'm in New Hampshire Anyone know much about audio? eeek audio what? audio is probably 24-bit audio spectrum analisys? filters? mibin: How to find THD, and general opamp info [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. what does THD stand for? Total Harmonic Distortion [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. 06:30pm hmm, that would mean pitch distortion? Not sure like making one's voice look male or female? I don't think so hmm, so what do you think? Not sure ;) hmm, you are looking for something you have no idea about? Very little idea well i'd go sleepeh, too, in that case =) k night tnx nite [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: varley.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) -:- NetSplit: tolkien.openprojects.net split from varley.openprojects.net [06:37pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [tolkien.openprojects.net] hmm [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net -:- Netjoined: tolkien.openprojects.net varley.openprojects.net -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from tolkien.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- SignOff mibin: #TUNES (Ping timeout for mibin[62.11.102.105]) 06:40pm hmm Downix: Que pasa? just pondering About? How to convince my best friend to move in with me Uhh Ok on a talker we go to ? telnet chat site 06:50pm ah cak I am tired bbl mabye -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (RavenOS -- NOW!) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from wang.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. 07:00pm -:- water [water@tnt-9-32.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes y0 * AlonzoTG/#tunes greets "Salutations water!" :-) 07:10pm hey water hey [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. I got one of thoze dover b000kz. cool which one? it's called, most tearsely, "Topology" by hocking? er... yeah, hocking and young? It was at the computer store, I was there to apply for a job but I couldn't bring myself to do something so horrible so I got the book. heh at a computer store?!? Yes, those are the authors... Yep. i mean, a topology at a computer store? absolutly! And there were books on nanotechnology there too. =P a good book, but i don't see why a programmer-type would be interested in that kind of topology nanotech: expected -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES ([BX] Homer Simpson uses BitchX. DOH! DOH! DOH!) well I don't know what kind of topology I have my hands on. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) So I'm going to read the book then flame you. heh there are better books form dover for topology i mean, easier to grok [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. 07:20pm who the f** is this vennik guy who posts to the mlist? not on the member list? well, i just want to know why the hell he thinks he can write the way he does well you didn't tell me that, therefore you deserve to be flamed. oh, that guy... the australian * AlonzoTG/#tunes hurls a laser guided flaming woodchuck at water well, atleast it can be said that he's posted to the mailing list if we get too many people writing to the mlist like vennik, the IQ level will go to s*** seeing as we've had a long drought of inactivity (however naive the post may be) I cleared my trash, what was he saying? uneducated crap just talking about having a formal model of language oh, yeah that one. thanks ei... uninformed, GEB-inspired nonsense at least I mentioned that it would have to be a formal or almost formal language like lojban. =\ lojban is crap hey, if we get mystic then we'll have millions of people on the list. =P ? it's so ridiculously outdated wrt current ideas in logic Numerology! woo hoo! Tell that to lojbab, please. what are "current ideas"? no thanks, i don't have the time to argue substructural logics, mostly = \ hell, even monague grammars aren't in lojban WhAt??? s/monague/montague Okay, Donald Gregory. Flame him. Now!!! though, judging what they claim to want to achieve with the language being slightly out of date doesn't seem to be a problem He was my logic teacher. yeah, well they're goals are short-sighted their why is my spelling deteriorating? too much wine? no too much irc? most likely THIS DONALD GREGORY HAS HIS OWN BOOK ON LOGIC. he uses it in his course. i can spell fine so long as i'm writing on paper... 07:30pm It is like "logic for preeschoolers" but when i'm typing my spelling goes to hell (perhaps because writing on paper is considerably slower and gives more time to think over the use of a given word) it's bunk that kind of logic isn't for preschoolers well I took two courses from this guy... paid a lot of money for them... ah that explains it I'll pay to fly you here and fix my college!!! no thanks i'm a dropout my discrete math teacher was good though. define 'good' okay I'll start in on you in a few days to tell me how I can learn what this funky montague thing is. it's model-theoretical semantics for grammars, that's all i.e. truth relative to a theory -:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial486.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes ? lo-k twins? :) aieeee water: probably his AI clone... written in perl I just got out of rant mode and realised that it's the only time when I'm actually productive rants are the best :) eihrul, that I have an AI clone running is a callunious fallacy. I'm afraid I can't do that, D--- eh, I mean... :) Anyway, I had a vision. of? Actually, more of a meta-vision. I saw The Right Thing - a way to integrate just about everything that I've been studying and working on. kauf: there were nanotech books at my computer store! 07:40pm (well, except maybe for the Orthogonal IDE. That's just plain useless.) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Mike_W (GHOST command used by mikew) * water/#tunes 's ears perk up Al, cool. Which ones? * Kaufmann/#tunes hopes for Drexler yes, drexler was in attendance. (NTTIIAWRTTCDBA) Egads... the Mac Python distribution is _huge_. the meta-vision? Al, I've ordered _Nanosystems_ in my last online purchase... I'm expecting it to arrive within the next two weeks. water, ah yes I tend to drift no, al drifts LOL we all do anyway, my V^2 isn't much darn conceptually, that is. it's also only barely programming-related. well, what is it? ... long msg, trying to put it in a coherent way... don't be disappointed :) putting it in any way would be a start... The first underlying premise is basically that, from a strictly objectivist standpoint, it tends to be in an individual's best interests to acquire information that is meaningful and relevant to him in a controlled fashion (as opposed to unrestricted assimilation of memes), to reason upon this information creating new memes, and to test these memes' Darwinian potential by passing them on to other people, who will do the same to these memes and ret 07:50pm (cont'd) to him, creating a positive feedback loop. Well, this is obvious enough. so where does the vision come in? :) bleh Considering, of course, that acquiring useful information is good for the individual. From this, it follows that a group of individuals would benefit the most when collaborating in a network, with full disclosure of ideas. yeah sure (as opposed to say, the centralized educational system) If you have quirms about a specific part of this (using the notions of memetics, or objectivism), I think that the conclusions drawn would be the same under any other similar philosophical paradigm this of course assumes that everyone has some sort of protocol for andling new ideas systematically no, there are key asssumptions of objectivism and memetics that i believe are hardly universal doesn't mean they can't provide a somewhat adequate model objectivism could hardly be considered 'objective' by any other philosophy water, yes, but although the motivations may be different (e.g. the proeminence of self-interest in objectivist thinking), I believe that the conclusions will be the same (unless in extreme cases). yes it does, because objectivism assumes that truth can be known sheesh, it just needs to provide a sub-par approximation :P from another perspective, an objectivist can be seen as implicitly choosing a set notion of truth, which *contradicts* the ideas of darwinism i.e. you objective people and their ideas would become extinct people don't work like that at all no one can know 'truth', and no one can stick with a notion of truth or consistency The second premise is that an individual, instinctively or not, prizes freedom, and (separately) that one of the prerequisites for achieving freedom is knowledge. lol 08:00pm well, i won't flame anymore it's not worth it I should point out that all I'm doing is trying to construct a rudimentary ideological framework so that I can explain the practical aspects of this idea in a better way. * water/#tunes sniffs I.e. this is not supposed to be a treaty on anything. _at all_. i smell something bad a system is never better than its assumptions even a programming system Okay. Simply put, what I'm thinking about is creating a distributed database (and accompanying Free "simple groupware" software) for people to communicate, share and learn in a less-than-formal fashion. That's all. cool. that's all you had to say objectivism is a good philosophy. Al, I tend to agree although "good" may not be the best term "adequate"? objectivism is some serious crap Well it has an advantage over the crap that Donald Gregory tought me in another expensive course: It is something one can live by. even the english language isn't objective at any level the english language is not something to be proud of either well, it works and it developed via evolution yes and so far as it did not evolve to be objective says something, i suppose water, under which definition of objectivism are you operating? no one can know 'truth', and no one can stick with a notion of truth or consistency oops sorry, wrong quote objectivism assumes that truth can be known www.dictionary.com has one definition of objectivism :) doesn't mean it's right check a home page for the philosophy water, I have plenty of links. That's not my point. hmm... objectivism defined in terms of objective well, what other meanings does it have than asserting an objective reality? lol anyway study it from another philosophical system what IS your point? 08:10pm mine? it has been said that mine is upstairs I think your philisophical system is pointless!!!!! LOL Al My point is essentially that the quest for truth is ultimately meaningful and worthwhile. objectivism can gide my lyfe. bullshit why would u use ’ in html instead of a ' My point is also that I use exageratedly many adverbs per sentence. Your philisophical system is only good for cosmology. air, because you can? air, because TMTOWTDI? air: some quirk about the character set, i believe its a non-portable character * water/#tunes feels the iq level dropping eh? yeah my head is clouded. I don't care water, expand on "bullshit". there is nothing I can do about it except flame you for your pointless non-objectivist philosophies. LOL Al objectivism can't be defined in terms of truth AlonzoTG: that would be the objectivist thing to do... otherwise you're not relating it to any other system of thinking man, I wish I weren't so foggy. [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Blackice_ (GHOST command used by _Blackice) so do i, al [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Blackice_ (GHOST command used by _Blackice) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us806.javanet.com] has joined #tunes [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Blackice_ (GHOST command used by _Blackice) and relating different systems of thinking is what communication is about [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Blackice_ (GHOST command used by _Blackice) maybe... [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) well, it's a big part of it [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Blackice_ (GHOST command used by _Blackice) I suppose it is possible to have two completely independant systems of thinking in one's own head and never bother to relate the two. I suppose that would constitute madness... =P i've held an infinite number in my head at once and had them relate AlonzoTG: schizophrenia? I've been diagnosed with that, yes. My point is that it's most useful for an individual to assume that there is some information that can be known and that can be classified as "truth", and to try and acquire this information. einstein did it some days I'm sharp, the last few I've been totally obtuse. =(((( [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from wang.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. and i say that anyone sticking with a notion of truth is bound to be a bigot to someone else hmmm... There is know knowlege. extreme examples: fanatics Math is fantastical too. atg: huh? It just happens to be a rather usefull fantasy. shut up point me to something that has number. water: objectivism isn't always harmful so long as the notion of "truth" accomodates a wide generalization of what the many perceive as their "truth" eih: of course, when everyone agrees :) though when "truth" is sufficiently specific, you get fanatics i suppose but no one ever really believes anything water, I never claimed to have a monopoly on truth. I only claimed to consider it possible (and furthermore, useful) to qualify information under the spectrum of truth related to a specific model of the universe. point me to something that has number. so, relative truth? atg: read agt agt = ??? abi: tell AlonzoTG about agt you'll like it trust me abi, my point? kaufmann, your point is, like, essentially that the quest for truth is ultimately meaningful and worthwhile. or that I use exageratedly many adverbs per sentence whee! abi agt? i heard agt was Around Goedel's Theorem at http://www.ltn.lv/~podnieks/ abi: kaufmann's point? water: no idea how odd yes indeed ;) ah yes, AGT :) I've read it 08:20pm agt = ??? point me to something that has number. ug abi, agt? agt is Around Goedel's Theorem at http://www.ltn.lv/~podnieks/ atg: point to me something that has anything My fucking universal language project is going to hell because number doesn't eggzist.... atg: so? hcf: what a waste of my time, eh? om I can't point to anything at all. =\ too bad how can you make something when nothing exists? :) I can't =\ "To make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." just rearrange information. * water/#tunes stares down AlonzoTG with the light of nihilism 8) Ah, nihilism... how... uh... how nothing, rather. nothing happens to be everything rotflmao!!! no, i'm no nihilist rotflmao!!! rotflmao!!! rotflmao!!! =? atg: go smoke a bole awww man, why oh why did I bring philosophy up? because you're not very bright I havn't lauhed that hard in years!!! what did you laugh about? the light of nihilism. yeah, I guess I'm not very bright after all. oh neither is any of us, come to think of it. kauf: why do you believe me? oh geez well, would anyone like to learn model theory? sure, why not? oh darn it, i lost the url no. but i have the postscript who wants it? I must know diophantine equations before I go on a murderous rampage. * eihrul/#tunes raises his hand. abi: model theory? model theory is see http://www.qucis.queensu.ca/home/dalamb/courses/422/tmintro/tmintro.html water: that url? send it to me not exactly 08:30pm I MUST KNOW HOW TO USE DIOPHANTINE EQUATIONS!!! water: dcc? abi: diophantine? bugger all, i dunno, alonzotg yeah hold on AlonzoTG: please refrain from capital letter abuse =\ * Kaufmann/#tunes slaps AlonzoTG around a bit with a large Led Zeppelin! tsc yeah, nobody's fault but mine. AlonzoTG: it makes it hard to read other conversation in the channel brb AlonzoTG: put title:diophantine in alta's advanced search hmm... I didn't know you could specify a title search. =\ I have been using what I was tought in the school library at my elementary and never bothered with the help pages... abi: theory model is see http://www.qucis.queensu.ca/home/dalamb/courses/422/tmintro/tmintro.html abi: forget model theory water: I forgot model theory -:- Kaufmann is now known as KaufmannBRB geez... my dcc is slow * eihrul/#tunes nods. altavista didn't return anything that looks vaguely usefull... and i was only uploading two copies of that paper -:- KaufmannBRB is now known as Kaufmann =\ i really hate win32 hey kauf: why'd the dcc stop? 08:40pm So diophantine equations are just so that people can express stuff in number theory??? The Big phat question I have, is how, in any way do diophantine equations able to express stuff? atg: go to #math at us.undernet.org water, it didn't! i guarantee you'll get a good answer there hmm... I'll risk a crash by firing up a second mirc.... still loading from my end i got the message "incomplete" i re-sent well, it's still "completing" oh wait I've noticed it you changed your nick ah okay, done. that's lame k my client deals with nick changes automatically i thought the protocol/server would handle it instead it's a client feature looking good it's a good intro very dense, though Well, that's it for me tonight. See y'all at least it has good examples k -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (kathyanne gets kick'd / as leaves fall on still waters / she is here no more.) am om sigh... * water/#tunes tries to write up some paragraphs for the arrow tech spec 08:50pm wow. i completely forgot that squeak had a good graphics package [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) anyone know what a texel is? yep why? what is it? for bitmapped textures, it's one cell [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) Peak fill rate of 480 million bilinear filtered, multi-textured pixels and more than 3.8 gigatexels per second what does that mean 09:10pm what are the 3.8 gigatexels? that means that it transforms 3.6 billion texture-pixels into textures on the screen in 3d (or 2d) it can take in or put out that many? that's how fast it can render what's cahced in the card's ram [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from wang.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. water: have u seen http://searchpdf.adobe.com/proxies/0/36/22/7.html http://searchpdf.adobe.com/proxies/0/86/19/10.html http://searchpdf.adobe.com/proxies/1/36/66/20.html http://searchpdf.adobe.com/proxies/1/63/6/35.html ? [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. list in alta hits * water/#tunes looks s/list/listed/ uhh 25 bytes? hmm hmm... well =\ 3d acceleration is a gimmic. atg: lol those urls /should/ of been all copies of ur older paper earlier today, i put in alta a phrase specific to ur paper, i got 7 hits instead of the usual 3 I'd take a single good CPU over a dozen 3D accerators. seems bytes and pages hav been switched... hcf: what were the extra 4? those urls above eih: yes oh how did they catalog all of those pdfs? AlonzoTG: pick yer cpu? well, the last url got it right AlonzoTG: having trouble picking one? yep. =\ Where can I get a good MIPS system that can toast my P100??? sigh... AlonzoTG: www.mashek.com, www.mce.com seraching... no mips cpu will even compare to the image that a p200 and voodoo1 displays why? i take it u have never seen a quake without a 3d card and quake with a 3d card it is not a matter of speed I paid $300 for my video card. It can even play MPEG 1 =) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) i paid $300 for an stb velocity, i paid $300 for a millenium, etc... so what wow. i have those same cards in one machine 09:20pm ppl even paid $5000 for an ibm pc heh this is the year 2000 yer card aint worth 10 cents today so shutup * AlonzoTG/#tunes has velocity 64 video with the S3 960 chipset... [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. my velocity 64V has the vision968 chipset [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. cool. a pissing contest and i might be wrong but i dont think s3 has a 960 chipset i could look it up in my s3 data book but im pretty sure they dont have one they have a 964 and 968 are there any non SGI MIPS systems? er 864 not 964 I think mine is the 968! =) I really don't understand all these different models MIPS puts out. i think u dont know what u think It's the Vision968, I just checked. =P 09:30pm DAMN http://www.quantum3d.com/product%20pages/mercury.html look at that damn card whoa [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) * water/#tunes ponders trying to get that into his computer just by physical dimensions alone hahaha i wonder if the aalchemy is gonna be like that that's insane it has 32 vsa100 chips on it, that mercury only has 16 v2 chips 09:40pm how do those cards interact with each other? see the bridge on top? yes v2 supports SLI what? that's it? each chip draws a every 16th line on the screen fuck either I'm hosed or my upstream router is foobar... I'm not getting that site. =((( AlonzoTG: bummer that card looks wicked It seems to be my router... It seems to be messing up on incomming traffic. i wanna know how they expect to fit 32 vsa-100 chips and 2gigs of ram into a PC -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- lar1 [larman@dialup-209.245.135.201.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes Hey -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-129-172.s426.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes lar1: http://www.quantum3d.com/product%20pages/mercury.html air: k 09:50pm I have a case that can swallow that... I'm not sure my mobo is big enough but my case is. =P [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed inart (This nick is reserved by another user) i have a p2 so it would easily fit air: WOAH! That thing is _impressive_ lar1: that is 8 voodoo2 chips and 32meg of ram the AAlchemy4 will have 32 napalm chips and 2gig of ram Whats the monetary impact factor? napalm is 3dfx's new processor for the v4 and v5 well 4 napalms and 128meg is $600 so $4800 + whatever 1gig of ram costs Uhh, a tad expensive, no? $6000? ppl spend $20,000 on cars everyday, why not $6000 on a video card? :) ummm, 6k for a video card is a waste of money no it aint the $100 jober looks pretty damn good to me yes it is, if your computer is used for more than just eye candy which seemingly is all you must use your computer for if you can justify spending 6k i think nvidia should add SLI to their chips so quantum3D can put 32 geforce chips in a card that would kick ass cuz the geforce chip is faster than the napalm chip -:- lar1 has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: TUNES, Assembly: not just for breakfast anymore || Beer! http://www.ionet.net/~timtroyr/funhouse/beer.html 10:00pm air: there is life beyond quake, man That URL I just posted is cool... possibly pertinant as well! ;) (quake infers all versions of quake) quine page is more fun eihrul: Don't forget unreal quake infers all versions of quake, halflife, unreal, homeworld, etc... :) again, as i said there is life beyond all those silly, putrid games no there isnt how is homeworld a quake-derivative? homeworld is very hard i think im gonna put my single p2 back in this box and install NT on my dual p2 so i can take advantage of the multithreading in quake3 NT, dual p2, geforce256 and quake3. AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed rmt (GHOST command used by rmt_) * lar1/#tunes doesn't see what qIII is better then qII... well ahhh about the last 3 items anyway lar1: do u have q3? air: No have u seen unreal? no oh damn unreal blows quake away in what it does with the graphics Does it blow homeworld? quake3 looks just as good as unreal but much faster hcf: how do i get abi to say a specific blurb when a single word comes up? homeworld is like a 3d starcraft hw is not a first person shooter hcf: not in the format of x is y x y unreal is a first person? Hasn't unreal been around for a while? k unreal was suppose to be out before quake2 but it took them years to make it air: more specific, please [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net services1.openprojects.net adding GLINE for *Mahalo@*.centurytel.net, expiring at 947293277: Your domain is temporarily restricted from access. For more information, please email support@openprojects.net. i.e. an example water: hell if i know :) i was guessing oh * lar1/#tunes thinks hcf fell asleep at the keyboard abi: quake i love quake quake om maybe that dont work :) i already tried abi: quake is i love quake quake quake? i love quake hmm quake? i love quake abi: quake is one of the lousiest games to ever be made ...but quake is i love quake... abi: quake? i love quake abi: no, quake is one of the lousiest games to ever be made okay, eihrul. abi forget quake water: I forgot quake [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from wang.openprojects.net. hahaha [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. gah Heh I want to go Head to head with one of you in quake 1.08 (the only one my machine can do) hm u can buy all of creative labs shit on their site but u have to goto cnet.com to buy their geforce card 10:10pm hm. that reminds me i should try out that new online 3d space shooter -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) alo: quake sucks 10:20pm -:- water [water@tnt-9-32.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Sleep!) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from wang.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Bishop (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-29.ici.net] has joined #tunes [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: devlin.openprojects.net hogan.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net hogan.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from hogan.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net hogan.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com calvino.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net calvino.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from calvino.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net calvino.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed ravskel (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- SignOff KaufmannStudyin: #TUNES (Ping timeout for KaufmannStudyin[jobim.fluid.impa.br]) -:- water [water@tnt-9-32.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes re 11:30pm [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from wang.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from wang.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [msg(TUNES)] newlog 2000.0108 IRC log ended Sat Jan 8 00:00:01 2000