IRC log started Sat Jan 8 00:00:01 2000 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0108 [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. anyone know how many generations of dvd drives there are? 8 I think 01:00am serious? half the drives on pricewatch say 3rd generation Serious [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) 5-8 are not yet availible for the public I believe And the video production industry is skipping DVD entirely sticking to BetaCAM and Hi8 what is the diff between 3rd and 4th nothing I can tell in 5th and above they swapped the compression standard (making them incompatable with older drives) well i just bought a phoebe tv tuner, creative labs dvd drive and decoder, 20gig 7200rpm hdd and a creative labs annihilator pro -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[glubimox.yok.utu.fi]) fun the annihilator doesnt ship until 15jan tho 01:10am ok [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net but that gives me time to dispute the price of it [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. buy.com listed it on pricewatch for $248 and when it went to their page it said $232.95 so i clicked buy and it said $248.95 hmm what is a white box? retail box, white box... not sure [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Maliuta (This nick is reserved by another user) u know any place online that would sell a mixer to hook 2 comps to one pair of speakers? and allow both to play at once? hmm not off-hand I like my new post but they gave it a 1, *sniff* heh I was commenting about the issuesof the internet 01:20am u mean bitching? :) yup wanna read it? ya ok hold on as I finish reading email http://slashdot.org/articles/00/01/07/1133226.shtml that's the article page 01:30am whats yer name downix my comments title is "The Issues at Hand" i havent seen them :) ok hehe [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from wang.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net wang.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. i think i shall reply to yer post ok ya maybe a nice flame post ;) gee thanks talk about nicole kidman or something uhh lol well i can no longer keep my eyes open so im gonna crash ok cya -:- SignOff air: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) I'm heading that way myself -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES ([BX] Automatically bored away) 01:40am [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed ice (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (changing servers) -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Ping timeout for water[tnt-9-32.tscnet.net]) [openprojects]!carter.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com wang.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by carter.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from asimov.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is asimov.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from asimov.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 12 02:19 EDT(from asimov.openprojects.net) -:- asimov.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(3)] 1% -:- [global users on irc(254)] 45% -:- [invisible users on irc(306)] 55% -:- [ircops on irc(19)] 3% -:- [total users on irc(560)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(31)] (avg. 18 users per server) -:- [total channels created(190)] (avg. 2 users per channel) !asimov.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 17 (16 clients) !asimov.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 3 ca 1(2) ft 14(14). -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Topic for #TUNES: TUNES, Assembly: not just for breakfast anymore || Beer! http://www.ionet.net/~timtroyr/funhouse/beer.html -:- topic set by lar1 [Fri Jan 7 21:57:58 2000] -:- [Users(#tunes:7)] [ TUNES ] [ thomas ] [ tmf ] [ Fare ] [ eihrul ] [ Fufie ] [ abi ] -:- Channel #tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 7.311 secs!! -:- Mode change [-ws] for user TUNES -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn104.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff tmf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for tmf[193.217.63.152]) -:- binEng [Anders@j141.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn104.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn104.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat) -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes hi smkl hey binEng do you have a homepage? http://users.utu.fi/sajuma/ i think i'll add few links there thanks. slightly disturbing background, isn't it? nope 05:00am a bit glossy those pages, no? bineng: I am currently reading some of the Prism stuff, not grasping all. has anything usable/cool been implemented or is that the next stage? Jim says he has implemented something, but I haven't quite grasped what. AFAIK it's not very cool ok and I wonder if he didn't talk about scrapping that too hmm Fufie: I like your 'availability' line on the Tunes member page :) 05:20am thank you :) What's S14? my aop-based hypermedia system I write for my thesis.. the homepage is down seems so interesting? yes is there any info available? I think I have an old article around in norwegian which I wrote.. two secs.. let me see norwegian :P better than nothing, I guess it's not very technical and very down-to-earth it was written a year ago, but the goal is the same basically (except that it's the aop-part which is important for the thesis) try again I'm not very familiar with aop the article says nothing about aop though could you mail it to bineng@tpp.dhs.org instead? yes tnx 05:30am sent ah updated today, I see? I ran it through latex today What's 'pensum'? curriculum I'd fogotten how weird norwegian is ;) it's pretty much like danish Danish is worse, IMO. At least to listen to yes, swedes are easier to understand when they speak Is this related to Udanax? udanax? Xanadu abi: Xanadu? i guess Xanadu is an imperative language with dependant types at http://www.ececs.uc.edu/~hwxi/Xanadu/Xanadu.html 05:40am no that doesn't look like the Xanadu I'm thinking if at all s/if/of/ abi: Udanax? bineng: bugger all, i dunno I'll do a search later http://udanax.com/ I was just wondering, I haven't got far in the doc yet it's something along the lines of udanax yes cool currently I am bootstrapping much of S14 with itself to make sure that the system can be implemented largely in itself.. you do have code, that is? the objects and functions people write should be first-class agreed I have a few thousand lines of lisp-code yes.. it's working as well but I am tuning/extending and making sure that things are configurable If you feel S14 is related to Prism or that text of mine, in some way, maybe you could present it on the Prism mlist? it is related but I want more time on S14.. ic. That is about the situation for me too after all.. I already have one project which Jim wanted to make Prism cooperate with :-) SDS, or? yes I don't want to flood Prism with projects ;-) And I wanted to cooperate with Prism :) (not "officially") we're having great fun with all projects ;) 05:50am I have too many projects What kind of numbers are we talking about, then? five or six yes thet does sound like a few too many but only three of them is followed-up properly.. even that is too much nod You talk about HTML in your doc, have you considered XML? yes.. it will probably do both.. right now it's doing xml no, I mean on the second page (in that context, I mean) ahh yes.. but html will still be around for a long time why yes, but would XML solve the problems you see? not alone Is "dårlig" really a word in Norwegian?! 06:00am yes.. means 'poor'/'bad' incredible spelling ;) not really spelled as it is pronounced so you actually pronounce the 'r'? in the part of Norway we do so.. the half-swedes in the east don't ic their 'r' is almost gone you also deal with modeling, I see I do? yes, don't you model that book according to (shallow) semantics (chapters, definitions, etc)? yes that counts :) 06:10am oh :) In that text, I tried to argue that the granularity in the modeling directly defines the upper level on what operations can be mechanised. which text? my mail yes Do you think I made my point clear? yes Is S14 only for text? BTW, what does 'S14' mean? S14 is basically for all sorts of content 06:20am it's basically a higher level programming language disguised as a hypermedia-system hmm S14 means: Stig's Sufficiently Sane, but Subtly Silly Student Serving System. Surprisingly Suitable for Stupid Students Surfing Sites. the reason it is a programming language is that a programming language is really needed oh my and instead of having apache <-> php + html <-> database I put them all into one and hide the fact that it's a programming language for the ordinary user yes a programming language is much needed, for describing the behavior of modeled information so users don't get to program in it? and let those that need more complex functioanlity have it.. to the level they need/want k the ordinary user usually declares how is data is tructured in a simple way and things work for him +s is source code also described inside the system? what do you mean? the code written in this language, is it incuded as data too? included yes, if you want it to "if you want it to"? where would it otherwise be? you can have it compiled, added as text, interpreted.. it's up to the user with 'text' do you mean what I refer to as 'data'? yes if it's interpreted it is text, isn't it? either a text or as a list isn't a text a list too? it can be usually text is a string logically, strings are lists, not? lists of chars you mean, yes um, yes as for code I meant lists as in lisp lists '(foo "bar") k which as text/string would be "(foo \"bar\")" 06:30am is the programming language lisp? but to get the information out of a table of contents node you usually would have the generator-funtion within the node to be compiled the programming language is built atop common lisp yes "generator-funtion"? generator function what's that, then? (thinking of an example later in the text you have) ? see page 9 and 10 I'm on page 6. Hard to read. norwegian isn't easy it soure isn't ;) "utbedre" == improve? ja 06:40am Why did you write the paper, you said? to satisfy my advisor and to get funding for research.. never finished it but we got some funding had to make it easy for lay-people oh, so you're really doing research in this area? sort of aren't you taking courses? have been giving some lectures lately..- must take a course on language semantics this spring though what kind of lectures? aop and scheme and oo-architecture largely for a java-crowd ic 06:50am was TA for the scheme part but it was not much TA'ing but mostly regular lectures in the normal lecture-time and TA is? teaching and articulating? :) Teacher Assistant.. usually leads groups and helps students and lectures on parts of the curriculum corrects assignments, answers mails, etc ok, I know what it is "opprinnelige"? originally? uhu "what they started out as" k 07:00am brb 07:10am Fufie: Do you pronounce "igjen" as it's spelled too? 07:20am the g is silent gotcha :) 07:30am Ok, i've read it through now did you get what I meant about compiling code now? some nodes are functional or have functional parts and should be programmed in the same system no :) I don't get it which part? what you said right now think of the table-of-contents node it's content isn't static table-of-contents is really a function but it is a node in the book tree ok then we get the content of the table-of-contents node we call the function does it look like "its return value"? (disguised) in a way for whom? for the casual user 07:40am they just know that it is a node with content they can get they don't need to know that it generates the content dynamically the guy who makes the book-structure needs this functionality though can it also be seen as the function code? if the programmer wants the code to be saved as well as the cmpiled function, yes +o how do you view the code in comparision to how you look at the computed results in such case? the function is however transformed by the aop-part of the system I don't understand your question I think ok. If the code is preserved, you might want to see it. But you might still want to generate the table-of-contents. How do you separate these two? you can save the code in a variable but not the same node? same node but they would use different functions to retrieve the info so how do you tell if you want the code or the results? e.g a function GET-CONTENT would probably get the generated table of contents and a function GET-FUNCTION-CODE would get the code but then it's no longer disguised, is it? You can't use it in the same way as if you had not known it was a function. ok I think I see what you mean you don't have to know it's a function.. the GET-CONTENT gets the normal content which might be generated or it might give you static data that means you can't have code as content? you can.. you just make a node-type which returns code defining new node-types is done in the same language ok and the type is preserved with the object 07:50am yes can functions be called with arguments? yes how's that done? by passing along a context-object which might contain the parameters how do you know the number and types of the parameters? some kind of declaration? this allows a simple interface for all normal functions as it is embedded in Lisp you have access to the full Common Lisp language so you're free to deifne extra functions and wrapper-classes, etc define can functions still be disguised? how do you mean disguised? What I'm after, is how functions are accessed/called in comparision to ordinary objects/data/text. they're generic functions.. a java || class chief_node { blah getContent() { ... } } what? class my_node { blah getContent() { my function is really hidden here } } class functional_node { blah getContent() { I redefined this to do what I wanted } } the system generates the appropriate classes and constructors etc is every action a getContent()? getContent() is one action the user can make his own e.g getCode() And contents can be changed too? yes.. if the node allows it a function, I guess? e.g a functional node might want to see to it that it is only replaced with a new function 08:00am is there type-checking there, then? type-checking? the type is there and is used when dispatching on the correct method it is not enforced with haskell/c++ vigour uhu written code might want to check the type though static typing is a mess in a dynamic system you think? yes Why so? (depends on what you mean with 'dynamic system' also, I guess) because I don't know the types in advance I don't know what kind of types will be created either a system of inherited types, maybe? there is a type-hierarchy and all new types are added to it dynamically and all method calls have multiple dispatch to allow one to specialise e.g on the the context object passed um, maybe what I'm thinking of it's really static typing, then s/it's/isn't/ but I don't know what functions return either getContent() might return a float, a string, etc don't they declare that? they can declare it if they want to but it's a pain ? all you want to know is that it returns something that is usable which you can check the type of if you want to then why do you have types at all? because I need them for the dispatch.. e.g find the right GET-CONTENT function out of 10-200 GET-CONTENT functions the dispatcher checks types.. it wants to 08:10am the normal users don't need to.. he or she should rely on the system to do such gritty details ok e.g (output (get-content my-obj my-context) some-stream) here OUTPUT will do dispatch on the returned type dynamically the user should not need to worry about such this is not mentioned in the article.. it is in some unreadable technical document 08:20am -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-134-80.s334.tnt3.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes * Fufie/#tunes yawns Fufie: Have you seen Thot? no sounds related to your thing.. url? www.inrialpes.fr/opera/Thot.en.html 10:00am thanks you're welcome 10:10am -:- lar1 [lar1@dialup-209.245.135.201.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes hey hey 10:20am Anyone accually go to the URL inthe topic? I did, pretty anazing stuff amazing Checkk out the BrainF*** one....that is _unreadable_ the link to that was dead. =\ -:- lar1 is now known as lar-Away heh amaaazing 10:30am I looked at this one called "DIS" the machine it runs is evil... your data pointers are incremented with the instruction pointer.... and the memory is TRINARY!!! eh where's that? bineng: finally able to read some of the prism documents (jim fixed the links) 10:40am bineng: your text was helpful to grasp some of prism were they broken? Is Jim here? Fufie: Fun to hear that! Thanks. jim just sent a mail to the SDS mailing list what is jim's nick? I don't remember (afk.. need food) Fufie: How many persons are engaged in SDS? 10:50am -:- _haylazzzz- [mturgut@asy224.as152.sol.superonline.com] has joined #tunes <_haylazzzz-> hi hi <_haylazzzz-> how are u just fine, thanks, how are you <_haylazzzz-> fine <_haylazzzz-> aranýzda türk oolan var zannedersem <_haylazzzz-> fare -:- ult [pope@user-38lc6bp.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #TUnes blegh*(!)@&# -:- ult [pope@user-38lc6bp.dialup.mindspring.com] has left #TUnes [] <_haylazzzz-> ý m from tukey -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us1011.javanet.com] has joined #tunes hi hcf hi bin hcf: Don't you have a homepage? -:- SignOff _haylazzzz-: #TUNES (Leaving) not really nothing to put on it that's how I reasoned too, but now I'k sketching on a page with some thoughts and info 11:00am so a page for ur vmthing is coming? hehe nah, that'll have to be later bineng: two main developers and one who is writing a gui in gtk+ Fufie: ok. And S14? bineng: me mostly, but it seems as two grad students will start in february to write tools for it nice 11:10am is there information on what the tunes OS will offer for scheduling at a fine-grain level? * smoke/#tunes is still trying to handle constant frame rate video with synchronized audio in linux -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp139.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes 11:20am * binEng/#tunes is away: Monty Python which mp? -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@209-122-247-138.s138.tnt8.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes 12:10pm -:- water [water@tnt-10-68.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes 'morning ugh ? sorry, i slept poorly 'night, thn