IRC log started Tue Jan 25 00:00:02 2000 -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you) [msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0125 -:- SignOff air: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn61.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- NetSplit: varley.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [01:54am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [varley.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: varley.openprojects.net irc.linux.com -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn61.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- zarq [zarq@10dyn220.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes morning 02:40am -:- SignOff Fufie: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fufie[tunnel-44-16.vpn.uib.no]) -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by lewis.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from varley.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is varley.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from varley.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 12 02:19 EDT(from varley.openprojects.net) -:- varley.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(28)] 5% -:- [global users on irc(243)] 41% -:- [invisible users on irc(355)] 59% -:- [ircops on irc(14)] 2% -:- [total users on irc(598)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(30)] (avg. 19 users per server) -:- [total channels created(200)] (avg. 2 users per channel) !varley.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 58 (53 clients) !varley.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 4 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr. -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Topic for #TUNES: TUNES, Free Reflective Computing System || slate || dopl || pl xref || #osdev please for non-tunes related discussion -:- topic set by lar1 [Sun Jan 23 14:16:45 2000] -:- [Users(#tunes:7)] [ TUNES ] [ zarq ] [ Fare ] [ smkl ] [ witten ] [ smoke ] [ abi ] -:- Channel #tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 7.171 secs!! -:- Mode change [-ws] for user TUNES -:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-18.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes -:- Kaufmann` [newbie@dial880.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes Well, I just found out something interesting today. Any package shipped from the US to Brazil is likely to be opened and inspected by at least 3% of all postal authorities in the world. 06:50am -:- Kaufmann` is now known as Kaufmann_brb -:- SignOff Kaufmann_brb: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Kaufmann_brb[dial880.infolink.com.br]) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us939.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[glubimox.yok.utu.fi]) -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-310.ici.net] has joined #tunes Ok all, need a hand -:- Ghyll [karltk@mp-217-227-7.daxnet.no] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Downix[d-gnaps-310.ici.net]) 08:10am -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-306.ici.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (Downix has no reason) quiet day -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-77.ici.net] has joined #tunes except for the decss debacle. which is all over the news. even the doctor examining me inquired about it... the DeCss thing is insane it's a fight the movie-companies know they will lose 08:30am they've already lost. but that doesn't mean decss will be free. They won't loose if the convince all of the jurers they're right Fufie: will they? they just try to stagger the opposing forces long enough to get a new medium they may win the battle, even if they lose the war DVD-2 is coming ya know, and it uses a new encryption standard yes, they lost when decss and other code went global and of course it's not backwards compatable Downix: it'll take years before dvd-2 becomes the standard.. Downix: precisely because it's _not_ backwards compatible. Ghyll: Not if the MPAA has they're way. They've already convinced 30% of the DVD-companies to switch to the standard early, in order to avoid piracy witten: the americans won every battle in vietnam but still lost the war heh Downix: it'll perhaps take 6 months longer for somebody to crack dvd-2. just look at encrypted cable and/or dished broadcasts.. * Downix/#tunes discussed with a friend this weekend about making a completely open-standard storage medium like DVD Downix: who would *use* it? Ghyll: I'll give them 4-months. Downix: that really depends if the consumers wil bother boing a new player 6 months after the old.. witten: Well, for a storage/transfer medium, whoever buys the drive. For movies.... well it could be done. Downix: I'm not really worried. Software copy protection can *always* be circumvented. Ghyll: If no DVD is availible, and only DVD-2, they'll be forced to. * Downix/#tunes nods and agrees with Ghyll Downix: in the worst case, you'll just fix up a video card driver that streams to disk :) besides.. MPAA is fighting for the possibility to make money in 10-15 years.. not today, in six months or three years Downix: you know, with creative's encore, you can copy the .vob files pretty easily: hit play, hit pause, the use explorer to copy the file from the cd to harddrive.. what could be simpler ? :) in 15-20 years the copyright laws will not be valid anymore Downix: but is creative named in the suit for making software that allows you to copy dvds ?? at least not for non-physical stuff Fufie: The problem is, the method of doing this is going to possibly destroy their own industry Ghyll: I know hold on * Downix/#tunes is away: (pesky rodents) [BX-MsgLog On] downix: no.. by liberating DVD and new mediums from the big companies we open opportunities to the small film-makers it's democratisation how uncapitalistic! it's all about ruining the american monopoly that'll be a tough nut to crack. even with the us' gross deficit increasing yearly.. not really sheesh. you _are_ an optimist.. the US should be split * Ghyll/#tunes really subscribes to the idea that humanity never really changes.. into five or six parts, in order to make the US a better place that'll be unfair as well.. especially when you start considering the EU, which is doing a fine job of being as ridiculous as congress.. I am not worried about Europe Europe will never ever march in the same direction ok, gotta check my pager -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (Downix has no reason) 08:40am mostly because europeans all differ you're probably right.. but they share the fact that they're all easily controlled by large amounts of money.. afk.. starving ARRESTED wtf?? are they *trying* to piss off geeks worldwide, or what? Hmm. Wonder what Jon Bing has to say on the subject (our chief software-law architect) -:- zarq is now known as zarq|afk -:- zarq|afk is now known as zarq Nothing. Oh. How eloquent.. 08:50am incandescent adj 1: emitting light as a result of being heated; "an incandescent bulb" [syn: {candent}] oops 09:00am ghyll: Jon Bing amazes me that he is so incredibly short-sighted ghyll: the guy seems unable to see more than five years ahead Fufie: he wears glasses.. Fufie: (*smirk*) ghyll: heh.. but he might've been a whiz at some point, but he has been eaten up by political correctness isn't that what's called 'pragmatic', if you want it to sound positive ? he is very prgmatic yes.. pragmatic instead of talking about the real stuff he is turned into a media-smurf that is useful to call upon by the tabloid media if he wasn't, our rules would be long lasting and good, and there'd not be anything for him to do. (invoke-bing) :p 09:10am -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-317.ici.net] has joined #tunes * Fufie/#tunes has run out of clean plates, knives and other kitchenware need to buy new hehe * Downix/#tunes is still grumbling over the DeCSS thing * Ghyll/#tunes is anxious to see what the puppet-state he lives in will do about it all.. -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@208-58-198-233.s233.tnt11.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes hmm.. this food was great.. how come I never thought of using that bottle of cognac when cooking earlier.. hmm ghyll: if you read aftenposten, jon bing is not too supportive of decss 09:30am ghyll: gisle hannemyr is a decent chap though and supports decss and linux.. 09:40am -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (Downix has no reason) What I fail to understand is why there is so much fuss about this. Reverse-engineering is allowed. Period. If I don't have to sign or accept any agreements before watching/using the DVD software, I can reverse engineer it to my heart's content. 09:50am it's the copyright law they charge him under.. not reverse engineering and all he did was making a gui in windows.. :-) just like charging somebody with manslaughter when they've allegedly commited fraud.. yeah. the paradox here, is that the actual descramble code wasn't written by him at all, according to members of his 'internation ring of hackers' -:- SignOff Ghyll: #TUNES (blerg) 10:00am MoRE!!! =P 10:30am -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp011.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for _ruiner_[ppp011.wi.centurytel.net]) -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[15dyn61.delft.casema.net]) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn83.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes dum di dum 11:30am -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[15dyn83.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn83.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[15dyn83.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn83.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Read error to smoke[15dyn83.delft.casema.net]: EOF from client) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn83.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- dalvarez [ircusr@212.68.72.98] has joined #tunes greetings -:- SignOff dalvarez: #TUNES (Leaving) 01:20pm -:- lar1 [larman@dialup-209.245.132.168.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- Ghyll [karltk@mp-217-242-120.daxnet.no] has joined #tunes ghyll: java is severly lacking they even forgot to add weak hashtables to 1.1 Fufie: win ? Fufie: I didn't find the existing ones particularily strong, either.. weak as in tables that can freely be gc'ed very useful for keeping pairs (in particular wrappers) Fufie: the ability to construct pairs on the fly is underappreciated in most languages. :) found a way to hack it though Fufie: the need to either return a 2 element vector + nasty casting or create an inner class to cover a particular case are both ugly. Fufie: I bet it doesn't look pretty. not too pretty.. I hope noone starts mucking around with the publicly available 'hidden_wrapValue' :-) Fufie: let's not touch on the subject of visibility... 01:50pm heh lecture at 10am tomorrow.. will never be able to make it obviously the lecturer is a real early-bird it's your beloved advisor :p 02:00pm suspected. time to make a recursive jgrep alias to match the lgrep (for lisp) alias * smoke/#tunes is reading `Evolution of Lisp' 02:10pm a great document :) hey, RMS was in the Common Lisp Group. he didn't do much aha how come the name `guy l steele jr.' looks familiar to me (i know very little names) probably because his name is tied to three popular languages i could think of lisp to start with smoke: think scheme and java he has also written a book about C Fufie: tho I'm not sure how much he did on java.. that seemed mostly like goslings brainchild. Fufie: and the's only mentioned in one of the java core books.. his name is on the "original" java paper and I have seen him active on java mlists java? it has been said that java is one of the motivations for making new OS's with truly portable Apps, that run native :) or a closed standard, as Sun proved i haven't used java for more than 3 lines and others' homework assignments; i wonder if it's as useful as the commercials want me to believe it's more useful if you want a job than CL yet lol 02:20pm java is actually very useful. it has a purpose of educating the masses. most people haven't heard of garbage collection or virtual machines or portability before they're introduced to java. they have heard of borland c++, delphi and visual basic, and that's all. and there are some all cool low level haxx0rs who can code *gosh* machine code (aka assembly language) hm i wonder if that's true not for me iirc is portability important if 95% use the same OS? :-) smoke: you're not part of the masses if you're on #tunes :))) hm i just come here to be on a channel which is free of windows/linux wars :/ 02:30pm smoke: nobody mentioned a particular os.. Fufie: for some software. 02:40pm (invoke 'black-magic 'java-program) it's funny how i feel like an 8-year old learning basic with common lisp now -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp18.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes the re-education of smoke :) 02:50pm -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[15dyn83.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn83.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes java is sooo verbose :( java is just a hack when will you learn? :) 03:20pm never? :) 03:30pm http://www.gamespy.com/articles/devweek_b.shtm is an article about what a game programmer thinks of some programming languages 04:10pm -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[15dyn83.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn83.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes smoke: mostly inane ranting... eihrul: very boring indeed History has shown that approximately every 10 years, the industry shifts to a new programming language. The next shift, and a new Renaissance in some argumentation.. 04:20pm -:- pyro [tcn@cci-209150250168.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes I'm sure that one day Lisp will once again be recognized for all that it is (hurry up TUNES ;-), but until then it will cast aside as a research project in the minds of most Real World Prgrammers. (a slashdot post) -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes 04:30pm what is this "frameworks" that tim sweeny goes on about? -:- SignOff Ghyll: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Ghyll[mp-217-242-120.daxnet.no]) -:- Kaufmann` [newbie@dial597.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes 04:40pm Egads anyone read that article by Tim Sweenie that Slashdot's linking to? Asshole what did he say? -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[glubimox.yok.utu.fi]) Kaufmann`: he put down lisp, i think... Functional languages aren't "real" languages; C was the first structured language... and I'm not even finished yet. url? Fufie: slashdot http://www.gamespy.com/articles/devweek_b.shtm it's sad how deluded the man is Another Jersey-weenie :) LOL... "C made large-scale programming possible." hey.. it's better than BASIC * zarq/#tunes is away: z pyro: that is questionable :) He also ignores classless OO, and credits all of GC to Java. haha air's game I skimmed it and he is probably at the forefront of what most programmers are (wrong chan :) s/what/where/ "While the last 10 years of programming progress were about objects, the next 10 years will be about ecosystems of objects." *pffft* 04:50pm This is a guy who considers parametric polymorphism innovative... LOL -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world) what do you expect from a guy who writes games that crash? That's funny... he disses functional languages, and then rants about some conceptually brittle "new" features as "the future"... completely ignoring that these features are basically the application of all the work done on functional languages to crappy languages like C++. C^2? uh? don't flame the guy I won't... don't worry This is a guy who considers "layers of abstraction" to be an arcane concept Fufie: you want us to do something worse? sadist... "writing object oriented programs in assembler is extremely error prone" what a crock of shit :) heh >>> Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-18.vpn.uib.no] requested PING 948848789 from #tunes Java was the first mainstream language to advocate "open-world programming", a belief that one should be able for groups of independent people to enhance the applications, components, and even the language itself, without breaking binary-compatibility--even across platforms and operating system versions. * Kaufmann`/#tunes sighs He thinks that "our thought processes as programmers are deeply influenced by the language we programmed in" is a radical claim. -:- SignOff Fufie: #TUNES (Leaving) type-checking catches error? -:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-18.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes 05:00pm >>> Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-18.vpn.uib.no] requested PING 948848996 from #tunes type-checking creates more false errors than it catches real ones pyro: do you mean static typing or typing in general? yeah, he's full of shit I program the same way in BASIC as I do in Forth, it just takes ten times longer Fufie: static but I don't really see much need for any typing then it is easier to agree ;) whenever you use inheritance, classes, structs, etc you introduce new types which all seem useful to me yeah I just don't like the compiler babysitting me, checking all my types The thing is, if you program in a language as constrictive as C++, trying to think like you would otherwise will only frustrate you... so you are pretty much forced to adopt a new way of thinking which fits the paradigm of the language. This is obviously the wrong thing. yup C++ is worse than C you people are crazy *: Target left UnderNet. Failed to deliver: [PING 948848789] witten, thankee! witten: that's a bad thing? This way, instead of the language being a way to communicate with the computer, it becomes more of a barrier. kaufie: you will always need to adjust your thinking to a programming mindset anyway.. but there is a difference in how narrow that mindset must be eihrul: the crazy remark is in response to the lack of typing "change is on the horizon"? witten: I am in favour of extremely strong typing.. when it is useful to me, and only then :-) Fufie: when it is useful to you? -:- SignOff pyro: #TUNES (changing servers) Fufie, "you will always need to adjust your thinking to a programming mindset anyway" - right now that may be true... but the goal of HCI, as I see it, is to make it so that you don't have to adjust your mindset in order to interact with a computer. This is what is meant by "ubiquitous" computing. -:- pyro [tcn@cci-209150250168.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes witten: when it increases my expressiveness and when it allows the compiler to generate faster code.. the last one I want to choose _when_ to use "parametric polymorphism" - is that like C++ templates? kaufie: I still disagree.. think of all the numbskulls out there.. they have to be trained to think logically and methodically.. that's important -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@208-58-198-233.s233.tnt11.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes om? Fufie: what about safety? pyro: paramteric polymorphism sounds like multimethods to me parametric even * AlonzoTG/#tunes has a strong feeling that you'll never figure this out... witten: what safety? =\ 05:10pm -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) Fufie: compile-time safety that you don't get when you wait til runtime to resolve things parametric polymorphism is just genericity witten: is it safety or a just a few handy error messages? Fufie, to do important stuff, yes; no one wants a numbskull to be writing failproof real-time software. But in day-to-day life, just as you don't have to enter a different mode of thought when interacting with a refrigerator, you shouldn't have to enter a different mode of thought when interacting with a computer... whatever a computer may be in five or ten years from now. Fufie: handy error messages at *compiletime* as opposed to *runtime* increase safety witten: no they don't.. they change the time the errors are discovered.. they don't change the safety-level -:- washort [washort@d113.narrowgate.net] has joined #tunes Fufie: i define safety as preventing bad things from happening when my program is running if errors are caught before my program is running, my program is safer witten: write carefully, then :) witten: that's not my definition.. mine is more in the area of proving a program pyro: in binary, right? :) because a smart enough programmer doesn't need to fancy new-fangled data structures! he can't write carefully enough on his own kaufie: you don't have to think to play solitaire in windows either.. Fufie: oh. but that can't be done for lots of stuff s/to/no/ witten: no, but a lot of the static typing gang seem to believe it does s/can't/can/ er believe what does? witten: static typing helps you discover some errors earlier but also restricts you severly right it's a tradeoff just like C is a tradeoff over assembly or OOP over plain C does OOP restrict more or less than C? Fufie, because you've become mechanised due to repetition, not because that's your natural mode of operation. Fufie: Depends on what you're doing :) Fufie: depends on the language. but C definitely restricts more than assembly kaufie: are you calling me a solitaire addict? ;) Everything that one can do with C++, one can do with C. Fufie: my point is that most advances have drawbacks you just have to figure out whether they're worth it Kaufmann`: it's all turing machines. that's not the point :) Any of you guys see Tim Sweeney's article on programming languages and wehre-do-we-go-from-here? yes he's smoking something Fufie, heh, no... but I'm saying that we're all part of a community which has grown so used to PC and workstation UIs that we start to find them somehow natural, which they are not. washort, that's exactly what we were discussing. oh. Heh! :) * washort/#tunes goes and stands in the corner :) i'm hacking an assembler.. a 386 assembler (an ugly beast) 05:20pm the problem is definitely more social than technical... even something like Modula-3 would be a big step up from C. :) haha Oberon? it has been said that Oberon is a language that is meant to extend Modula and Pascal. It was developed by Niklaus Wirth and others. or at http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/ pyro: That, too. brb -:- Kaufmann` is now known as Kaufmann_brb I switched from Pascal to C.. not the other way around i played with Native Oberon a bit and hurriedly deleted it when i couldn't find the debugger pyro: Pascal is much more of a toy language than Oberon/Modula-3/etc but I find them all rather dreary. :) hehe... my language history: BASIC -> Pascal -> C -> C++ -> C -> Forth/Assembler (throw in a little Lisp, Prolog, Java (ack)) *nod* that looks about normal, except for the last step. :) pyro: heh, the only thing Java has going for it is that it's not C++ :) what do you use these days? Java may not be C++ but it sure does feel like it! my favorite is Smalltalk, but i'm currently doing a lot of Python (i'm using Zope) I also favor Haskell and Mercury and wish I could find a good application to write using those langs.... and i want to learn Lisp better. :) say, you do any windows (MS windows) programming? Unfortunately I need to use it at work and I'm looking for a decent programming environment.. pyro: well, i program in Squeak, and it runs on win32, but i doubt that's what you meant Prolog is a neat little language.. I'm just not sure what it's good for :) -:- Kaufmann_brb is now known as Kaufmann` pyro, Prolog is good for theorem provers and the like... anything that requires a lot of logical relations washort: nope :) It needs to be faster (although the Squeak interface would impress the people I work with/for) in terms of development *environments* i prefer emacs. :) second only to Squeak... but I still need a compiler that jives with windows *nod* what are you developing? DJGPP won't hack it.. but VC++ sucks database interfaces 05:30pm pyro: have you tried the cygwin set? port of gcc, etc right now we're using MS access.. I'd rather use my own interface and an SQL server abi, cygwin? pyro: i haven't a clue if it was on unix i'd be using perl or python w/ tk or gtk perl/tcl/tk/python run on win32 you *could* do that on win32, i doubt it'd be convenient though right? right. and GTK, i believe ;) I'm also considering Forth.. I could hack the compiler to suit myself :) But that scares the other programmers :0 heheh scaring other programmers is good... ;) * washort/#tunes wonders how well Gwydion Dylan works on win32 LOL... I'm having a discussion with a guy according to whom Microsoft doesn't lie. Maybe there's a good LISP environment for win32? pyro: not for free and "useful", AFAIK. -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us141.javanet.com] has joined #tunes Franz Lisp is supposed to be superb, but I believe it's rather expensive i'd love yo be wrong though s/yo/to/ got a url for Franz? no, 'fraid not there's a couple of Lisps for win32, Harlequin sells on too i think if you don't mind spending money, check out Dolphin Smalltalk - fast and win32 native widgets and ~$100 IIRC. pyro: franz.com smalltalk might work.. if I was stuck developing on win32 it's what i'd go for. ;) 05:40pm that wouldn't happen to be dolphin.com? probably.... http://www.object-arts.com heh,i just noticed that objectarts.com was not what I thought it was :) hehe click to enter... this looks like a porn site it's $55 i'll have to try the free version -:- Netjoined: devlin.openprojects.net asimov.openprojects.net -:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has joined #tunes does it have the 'graphical programming' features of Squeak? pyro: i doubt it. it's more aimed at building "normal" windows applications AFAICT. still.. something to check out it costs more than for tools to get around VB's GUI crap 05:50pm Squeak can get away with it because it does all of its own graphics. :) pyro: *nod* but it's a Real Language. ;) right * Fufie/#tunes crawls to bed.. good night no VM bullshit :) later fufie well, I'm off. see ya thanks for the advice -:- SignOff Kaufmann`: #TUNES (kathyanne gets kick'd / as leaves fall on still waters / she is here no more.) i'll advocate smalltalk anyday of the week (for free, even :) yeah.. it looks like a well thought-out language hehe.. like the Forth or Lisp of OO languages oh well.. back to my assembler :) 06:00pm -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-21.ici.net] has joined #tunes thanks.. wish me luck :) -:- SignOff witten: #TUNES (Ping timeout for witten[un.torsion.org]) -:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has joined #tunes 06:10pm -:- SignOff pyro: #TUNES (pyro has no reason) -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Downix[d-gnaps-21.ici.net]) -:- SignOff zarq: #TUNES (Ping timeout for zarq[10dyn220.delft.casema.net]) -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-41.ici.net] has joined #tunes -:- zarq [zarq@10dyn179.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes * Downix/#tunes is away: (Auto-Away after 10 mins) [BX-MsgLog On] -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (Downix has no reason) -:- lar1 [larman@dialup-209.245.134.112.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes Hey -:- SignOff washort: #TUNES (Ping timeout for washort[d113.narrowgate.net]) 07:30pm -:- ult [noone@user-37kba4s.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff witten: #TUNES (bye) -:- SignOff air: #TUNES (Ping timeout for air[p0wer.qzx.com]) -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes read the web page oops wrong channel 07:40pm -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Read error to lar1[dialup-209.245.134.112.SanJose1.Level3.net]: Connection reset by peer) -:- lar1 [larman@dialup-209.245.134.112.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes -:- Zhivago [brian@61.8.3.96] has joined #tunes * ult/#tunes has had more than his fair share of compiler-related problems. -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- washort [washort@d113.narrowgate.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff washort: #TUNES (Ping timeout for washort[d113.narrowgate.net]) -:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has joined #tunes -:- ree [js@twisted.goodnet.com] has joined #tunes hey all 10:00pm Hey -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us131.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- strlen [alex@strlen.net] has joined #tunes hey hey tag everyone get in on it while you can Get in on what? hey larl 10:10pm is that a lar1 or larl lar1 it sort of looks like tis lar1 this terminal doesn't do well with 1/l don't you love those fonts where 1 looks exactly like l ok, so one or el? one hehe one yeah this is the be terminal aaaaag 1l1l1l :) 010100110110 what would be nice is a os/2 equivalent terminal os/2 command prompt really supports the vt interface ree: so, where's that algo? hey eihrul still working on it I've started a science site gah twisted.goodnet.com open source free software it will be put there if it ever does indeed work but I'm finally doing what I wanted -:- SignOff witten: #TUNES (Ping timeout for witten[un.torsion.org]) how have you been -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ult[user-37kba4s.dialup.mindspring.com]) not complete yet of course just worked to get a basic interface up and started on the software 10:20pm -:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving) * strlen/#tunes is away [autogone:10/l:on] -:- SignOff witten: #TUNES (Ping timeout for witten[un.torsion.org]) -:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat) -:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has left #tunes [] -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp028.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you) [msg(TUNES)] newlog 2000.0126 IRC log ended Wed Jan 26 00:00:01 2000