IRC log started Tue Feb  1 00:00:01 2000
-:- SignOff Plundis: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Plundis[130.238.23.252])
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0201
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world)
-:- smoke [smoke@16dyn147.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
<_ruiner_> wb
<smoke> hi
<_ruiner_> would you by chance have water's e-mail address?
-:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you)
12:10am
-:- SignOff air: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep)
-:- Plundis [plundis@130.238.23.252] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world)
-:- smoke [smoke@16dyn147.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world)
-:- smoke [smoke@16dyn147.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world)
-:- smoke [smoke@16dyn147.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world)
-:- smoke [smoke@16dyn147.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us204.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
-:- Kaufmann [kaufmann@amadeus.fluid.impa.br] has joined #tunes
<Kaufmann> Shalom
07:30am
-:- Plundis_ [plundis@130.238.23.252] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff Plundis: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Plundis[130.238.23.252])
-:- Plundis_ is now known as Plundis
-:- SignOff thomas: #TUNES (Ping timeout for thomas[193.217.63.152])
-:- thomas [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[quatramaran.ens.fr])
-:- SignOff thomas: #TUNES (Ping timeout for thomas[193.217.63.152])
-:- thomas [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn147.delft.casema.net])
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Read error to Kaufmann[amadeus.fluid.impa.br]: No route to host)
-:- Kaufmann [kaufmann@amadeus.fluid.impa.br] has joined #tunes
<Kaufmann> My Karma is at 44. Tee-hee.
<Fufie> /. luser :p
<Kaufmann> :)
<Kaufmann> just doing my best to enlighten the masses
08:00am
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Kaufmann has no reason)
-:- Kaufmann [kaufmann@amadeus.fluid.impa.br] has joined #tunes
-:- Kaufmann_ [kaufmann@amadeus.fluid.impa.br] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Read error to Kaufmann[amadeus.fluid.impa.br]: EOF from client)
-:- Kaufmann_ is now known as Kaufmann
-:- Fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #tunes
<hcf> hi Fare
08:40am
<Fare> lo, hcf
-:- Kaufmann is now known as Kaufmann_away
08:50am
-:- bineng [Anders@j141.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes
<hcf> hoy bin
-:- Kaufmann_away is now known as Kaufmann
<bineng> hello
<Kaufmann> hullo
<bineng> what's with that link? :)
<bineng> Kaufmann: So how's Brazil today?
<Kaufmann> bineng, it sucks, as usual
<bineng> uhu
<Kaufmann> how's Sweden today?
<bineng> cold and dark. As usual. :)
09:00am
-:- bineng_ [Anders@j141.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff bineng: #TUNES (Read error to bineng[j141.ryd.student.liu.se]: Connection reset by peer)
-:- bineng_ is now known as bineng
-:- smoke [smoke@16dyn56.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff bineng: #TUNES ( <k!14>)
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (BRB)
-:- Kaufmann [kaufmann@amadeus.fluid.impa.br] has joined #tunes
<thomas> progress!
<Kaufmann> good!
<Kaufmann> of what sort?
<thomas> I believe I have reached the point where syntactic expressiveness is adequate for the semantics i want
<thomas> strangly, ( you could say "I told you so ) it all becomes sort of lisp-ish :|
<Kaufmann> I wish I knew wtf you were talking about, thomas :)
<thomas> it's about the ongoing development of TOOL
<Kaufmann> abi, TOOL?
<abi> TOOL is TMF's Object system on top of TML
<Kaufmann> abi, TMF?
<abi> TMF is an imposter. real santa(Copyright Coca-Cola Company) is from finland
<Kaufmann> abi, TML?
<abi> TML is, like, a string-rewrite system by TMF; TMF has implemented TOOL on top of it
<Kaufmann> wow, very enlightening
<Kaufmann> :P
<thomas> and now, TOOL could be regarded as a kind of lisp :|
<thomas> I guess
<thomas> objects are "lists" or collections of properties, while methods are effectively iterators
10:20am
<thomas> things just fall into place - code shrinks, problems dissapear,  the correct ways of expressing things emerge - and I'm perfectly happy about it :D
<Kaufmann> way to go, dude
<Kaufmann> now, what _is_ it?
<thomas> it's a programming language
<hcf> and where is it url-wise?
<thomas> hcf, it's not publically available
<Kaufmann> uh-oh
<Kaufmann> do I hear Stallman screaming somewhere?
<Kaufmann> :)
<thomas> hahaha
<thomas> or rather ho-ho-ho :D
<Kaufmann> is it specific-purpose?
<Kaufmann> put another way, is there a good reason why it isn't publically available?
<Kaufmann> I'm not saying that you don't have the right to withold your program
<thomas> yes, there is no final implementation
10:30am
-:- NetSplit: lackey.openprojects.net split from devlin.openprojects.net [10:33am]
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [lackey.openprojects.net]
-:- Netjoined: lackey.openprojects.net devlin.openprojects.net
-:- Fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #tunes
<thomas> abi, Stallman ?
<abi> bugger all, i dunno, thomas
<Kaufmann> abi, RMS?
<abi> RMS is Richard Stallman or root mean square
<Kaufmann> abi, rms is also at rms@gnu.org
<abi> okay, Kaufmann.
<thomas> ok, but wth is Richard?
<Kaufmann> nobody calls him Richard
<Kaufmann> Stallman is God
<thomas> brb
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
11:00am
<Fufie> thomas: I told you so :-D
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn56.delft.casema.net])
-:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-64.ici.net] has joined #tunes
11:20am
<Kaufmann> hey Downes, what's up?
<Kaufmann> it looks like I may be moving into the embedded appliance business soon
<Downix> studying the AmigaOS's exec.library source.  (AmigaOS's kernel)
<Downix> very cool
<Kaufmann> yeah
<Kaufmann> as CTO and Chief Software Engineer, which is even better
<Downix> well, what is your new company looking for in a chipset?
<Kaufmann> I'm not sure yet
<Downix> well, how long till they need a product?
<Kaufmann> we've got three projects lined up... right now we're hunting for VC
<Downix> same with my company
<Kaufmann> of course, there _is_ no such thing as a VCist in Brazil, so we have to get money by, uhrm, non-standard means
<Downix> out-of-country investments?
<Kaufmann> basically, we're trying to get a big-ass telecom company to buy a big piece of us
<Downix> ah
<Kaufmann> one of our guys is completing an MBA in Telecom Management, so... connections, connections
<thomas> fufie, :D
* Downix/#tunes nods
<Downix> Well, if your firm wants a "strategic partnership" with mine, just ask.  Would look good to investors on both ends
<Kaufmann> probably. The problem is all the bureaucracy involved with overseas business
11:40am
<Downix> depends on how it is handled
<Kaufmann> maybe so on your end. Here, it's always a big mess
<Downix> but a partnership at this stage is simple to impliment, since neither of us have a product
* Downix/#tunes nods
<Kaufmann> LOL
<Downix> good point?
<Kaufmann> I gotta go now. Probably be back in a few hours, though.
<Downix> k
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (This programme is brought to you by the Cthulhu Corporation: awakening the Ancient Gods... for your satisfaction!)
11:50am
-:- SignOff thomas: #TUNES (Ping timeout for thomas[193.217.63.152])
-:- thomas [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes
-:- smoke [smoke@16dyn246.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff thomas: #TUNES (Ping timeout for thomas[193.217.63.152])
-:- thomas [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes
-:- bineng [Anders@j141.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes
<Downix> holy shit
* Downix/#tunes was just dcc'd a copy of the AmigaOS source code
<Downix> I have never seen an OS source so confusing to look at
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us134.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
-:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-64.ici.net] has left #tunes []
12:50pm
-:- lambda [lambda@cogeco-88-83.cgocable.net] has joined #tunes
-:- mibin [mibin@62.11.104.132] has joined #tunes
<lambda> yo
<mibin> who be you?
-:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-64.ici.net] has joined #tunes
<mibin> =)
<bineng> yes, who be you?
<Downix> uh oh, the bin's are going at it
<mibin> heh
01:00pm
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn246.delft.casema.net])
-:- overfien [overfien@dialupW100.sttl.uswest.net] has joined #tunes
<overfien> yoh
<Fufie> um
<Downix> hey
<Downix> Fufie, know of any good way to convert 68k asm into C?
* overfien/#tunes is away doing some mot asm (mac os x server brb)
<Fufie> there is no good way
<Fufie> just hard work
<Downix> Well, I really don't want AmigaOS anyways
<Downix> but this is facinating
<overfien> downix not a quick way
<overfien> convert binary
-:- SignOff mibin: #TUNES (Ping timeout for mibin[62.11.104.132])
<Downix> overfien:  first I'd need a way to compile it
01:20pm
-:- smoke [smoke@16dyn246.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
<Fufie> pencil and paper
<Fufie> cheapest compiler available
<Downix> yup
* smoke/#tunes is writing a simple gui in the language of all languages.. C :)
* Downix/#tunes is studying the AmigaOS source code going "ASSEMBLER?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!"
01:50pm
<smoke> downix: amiga os or aros?
<Downix> smoke:  AmigaOS
<smoke> downix: is it open source then?
-:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh8-port214.snet.net] has joined #tunes
<smoke> downix: what's this?
<Downix> nope
<Downix> when Commodore was sold, some of the computers holding the OS source were sold to someone in the UK, who gave away the source
<smoke> aha
<rares> heh
<rares> okay sick topic
<Downix> the source off of that system
<Downix> I'm still going, ASSEMBLER?!?!?!?!?!?
<rares> I'm still going LEGIBLE ASM!!!!!!!!!!  how the fuck?
<Downix> hehe
<Downix> rares, I got the actual source code, from Commodore
-:- beholder [beholder@ppp-109.m2-2.sub.ican.net] has joined #tunes
<rares> diff source?
<Downix> yup
02:00pm
<rares> diff from exec.library.asm you sent me?
<Downix> yes
<rares> thank ye
-:- SignOff Fufie: #TUNES (X)
<Downix> taken a look smoke?
<smoke> downix: not yet
<Downix> k
02:10pm
<rares> Why can't PostPC mean Post Politically Coreect
<Downix> hehe
<smoke> downix: ah it's the OLD amiga os
<smoke> downix: of course that was written in asm
<Downix> It's AmigaOS 3.1
<Downix> there is nothing newer
<Downix> (AmigaOS 3.5 was nothing but a re-designed Workbench, no actual OS upgrade)
-:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-14.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes
<Downix> still quite... interesting
<Downix> hey fufie
<Fufie> hi
02:20pm
<Downix> hey fufie, how is tunes going to handle it's core element?
<Downix> where the kernel is on UNIX?
<Fufie> hopefully not like it's doing it now
<Downix> hehe
<Fufie> I don't really know
* Downix/#tunes is quite impressed with the library concepts in Amiga and Clementine
<rares> speaking of core elements
<rares> wehen is core going to release the beast
<Fufie> noone will agree anyway, except that it needs a compiler and a vm and a good gc system
<Downix> not sure rares
<Downix> Fufie:  Well, right now it has nothing
<Fufie> it has a few mailing lists, a web site and a few review pages
<Downix> true
<Fufie> it also has a irc-channel with people who're somewhat more advanced than the common crowd
<rares> Amiga goes along way to shortenting the distance between "low-level" and "high-level"  it might be the first viable architecture to put microkernels on
<Fufie> Amiga is dead
<rares> hardly
<Fufie> very
<rares> Ebay fizzles with Amiga components
<Fufie> Amiga has ceased to be
<rares> There's 5 shops in my state
<rares> I just bought one
<Fufie> A500?
<rares> Just cuz it's not on television doesn't mean it's gone
<rares> what was it Downix
<rares> A2000
<rares> ?
<Downix> Brand new Amiga design hit the manufacturing plant last week
<Downix> A2000
<rares> And new devices are still being made
<Fufie> I remember a friend had a A2000.. that was 12 years ago?
<Downix> the new BoXeR is coming
<rares> How good is BoXer
<Downix> BoXeR is quite nice
<rares> I think people should stop usding the phrase <insert name> is dead.  Always backfires
<Downix> they fixed the AGA chipset's problems
* Downix/#tunes nods, true
<Fufie> pah
<Downix> there's still a company in Hong Kong that builds the Commodore 64
<Fufie> if the Amiga brand is used again it will be new computers with most stuff reprogrammed
<rares> And I'm counting on the fact that they won't and that it will :)
<Fufie> but oh yes.. the Maiga crowd will say it's an Amiga
<Fufie> Amiga even
<Downix> Fufie:  I know, really pathetic.
<rares> if the Intel brand is used again it will be new computers with most stuff reprogrammed
<beholder> Hmm... could put some NetBSD on that amiga ;)
<Fufie> I doubt Intel has a bunch of screaming kids who get wet dreams about Pentiums
<Downix> Fufie:  hey, "It's all About the Pentiums, baby"
<Fufie> Nobody really cares about Intel
<rares> thsat wasn't the point
<rares> dodo
02:30pm
<Fufie> Amiga is a religion.. 
<Fufie> Intel is ya hardware company
<Fufie> Linux is also a religion
<Downix> I know, kinda funny
<rares> Amniga is a design that kicks ass (I never owned one until Dx bid one for me)
<Fufie> maybe it was
<rares> sorry if I hear another deathsentence I'm going to raise the body of Jimmy Hoffa
<beholder> BSD is a religion...
<Fufie> Commodore 64 is dead
<Downix> BSD is Islam, with 3 major branches, each trying to kill the other 2
<Fufie> it has ceased to be
<rares> COmmodore is dead companies die
<Fufie> does Islam have three major branches? I thought it had two
<Fufie> christianity has three major branches though
<Downix> Fufie:  Suni Sufi and Bahai
<beholder> Downix: There aint nothing wrong with the other 2 BSD's I don't use 
<rares> next you'll tell me Basic Geometry is dead because we discovered fractals sheesh 
<Fufie> rares: Basic Geometry is not interesting anymore.. :p
<Downix> beholder:  Ever sat for an hour listening to DeRaat?
<beholder> Downix: Nope, is he in this chan often?
<rares> I hope not
<Downix> beholder:  No, he's on #openBSD, EFnet
<Fufie> a Theo on the tiunes@ list would increase the temperature
<beholder> Downix: Does he evanglize the need for everyone to use open?
<rares> I'm feeling evil what would get DeRaat to spew , Downix?  I want to log him...
<Downix> lol
<beholder> rares: If he's an openbsd fantic go in and talk about the technical superiority of linux, or freebsd hehe
<Downix> Ironically, Theo is a big Amigas guy... must explain a few things
<Downix> beholder:  Yup
<beholder> Downix: I use freebsd on a daily basis, it's nice, very clean
<beholder> Downix: Never tried openbsd though... but I hear it's just as good. 
<Downix> rares:  Log onto the channel and ask for help on NetBSD
<Downix> Or Linux
<Downix> or FreeBSD
<Downix> or Windows
<rares> OpenBSD is slower cuz it's anal on security (a good thing)
<beholder> AHAH!!! That'd get em going
<beholder> "I can't seem to find the driver for my winmodem" hehe
<rares> Does OpenBSD support my onboard AGP chip?
<Downix> beholder: OpenBSD is slower, but it is very secure, better than FreeBSD
<rares> I have a better idea
<rares> I'll just watch
02:40pm
<beholder> Downix: Yeah, so I hear also.
<Downix> rares:  Yes
<rares> YES to which?
<rares> (I have no onboard AGP chip)
<Downix> beholder:  i use OpenBSD quite often, it is decent
<Downix> rares:  BSD supports a lot of good hardware
<beholder> Downix: How about Net?  I'm getting some PPC Mac's in here, I'm gonna try it out 
<rares> I'm looking into using it as a Fed teaser
<beholder> Downix: I hear Net even has a port of X that works on a 680x mac, the ones with the little black and white screens :)
<rares> aalix crossed w/ X
<Downix> dunno, never used Net
<rares> aalib even
02:50pm
<Downix> ok, time to get my mail
-:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp074.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes
-:- hcf_ [nef@me-portland-us324.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Read error to hcf[me-portland-us134.javanet.com]: Connection reset by peer)
-:- hcf_ is now known as hcf
03:00pm
-:- SignOff lambda: #TUNES ((lambda (x) (exit x)) irc)
-:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you)
<rares> well bye ppl
-:- SignOff rares: #TUNES ([x]chat)
03:10pm
-:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Downix[d-gnaps-64.ici.net])
-:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-64.ici.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z!)
-:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-64.ici.net] has left #tunes []
-:- SignOff overfien: #TUNES (Ping timeout for overfien[dialupW100.sttl.uswest.net])
-:- Downix2k [down@d-gnaps-64.ici.net] has joined #tunes
-:- Downix2k is now known as Downix
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp133.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes
-:- lar1 [larman@dialup-209.245.140.105.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes
<lar1> Hey
<eihrul> hey
<lar1> beholder:  AKOS is yours?
<beholder> lar1: Sorrta, mostly bin's though
<eihrul> akos?
<abi> akos is A Kind Of Special game or at http://tpp.dhs.org/AKOS.html
* bineng/#tunes is here
<lar1> akos isn't an os?
<bineng> no
<lar1> Ah
04:30pm
<eihrul> some of this introduction seems to be reinventing much of what LPMuds already did....
<bineng> I don't think so. Any anyway, that's old stuff now
04:40pm
* Fufie/#tunes yawns
* eihrul/#tunes punts Fufie
<Fufie> thank you dear sir :)
<eihrul> Fufie: whatcha up to?
<Fufie> I solved my cmucl problems.. cmucl was too trigger-happy on the optising but I moved around code and eventually it worked.. cost me a day
<eihrul> small price to pay for cmucl :)
05:10pm
<Fufie> and now it is officially ported to CMUCL and I am fixing docs
<Fufie> tomorrow I must write some java code for money
<Fufie> and thursday I should start writing words in my thesis.. :-/
<eihrul> what is your thesis on?
<Fufie> aop and hypermedia-systems
<eihrul> ah, that's right
<Fufie> and you?
<eihrul> still learning the Tao of Compiler Design/Implementation
<Fufie> tall order
<eihrul> and trying to keep up with all the papers water keeps flinging my way
<Fufie> does water any compiler design or implementation?
<eihrul> rephrase
<Fufie> does water do any compiler design or _implementation_?
<eihrul> no idea....
<eihrul> he's designing slate :)
<eihrul> since its a meta-programming system....
<eihrul> that's close enough
<Fufie> :)
<eihrul> and i believe him saying on mlist or some mail that he was going to do an implementation
<Fufie> that's good
05:20pm
-:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes
<Fare> Gakuk
* Fufie/#tunes crawls to bed.. (gakuk fare)
* Fare/#tunes follows Fufmann to 3053
<eihrul> hmm, anyone here use vim?
* beholder/#tunes shudders at the metion of vi...
05:50pm
<eihrul> vim
<eihrul> not vi!
-:- SignOff bineng: #TUNES (Read error to bineng[j141.ryd.student.liu.se]: Connection reset by peer)
-:- bineng [Anders@j141.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes
06:00pm
-:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (Read error to Downix[d-gnaps-64.ici.net]: Connection reset by peer)
-:- ult [noone@user-38lc711.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #tunes
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us914.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
-:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-95.ici.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Read error to lar1[dialup-209.245.140.105.SanJose1.Level3.net]: Connection reset by peer)
* eihrul/#tunes ponders where water is.
<hcf> he sed he'd be away
<eihrul> where to and how long?
<hcf> checking
-:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has left #tunes []
<hcf> cant find the mention, perhaps i'm wrong
07:40pm
-:- SignOff beholder: #TUNES ([x]chat)
-:- SignOff bineng: #TUNES ( <k!14>)
<eihrul> hcf: find it :)
* Downix/#tunes is away: (Auto-Away after 10 mins) [BX-MsgLog On]
<hcf> eihrul: i may be mixing it w/ the last time he'd be gone for qwhile
08:10pm
* Downix/#tunes is back from the dead. Gone 0 hrs 5 min 45 secs
<hcf> s/q/a
-:- water [water@tnt-9-37.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes
<eihrul> hey!
<Downix> hey water
<water> hey
* water/#tunes is very tired from work
<water> :P
<Downix> ok water, got Slate done?
<Downix> lol
<water> i've got some things worked out
<water> seriously i worked for ~38 hours with 4 hours sleep
<ult> hey water
<ult> slate looks useless?
<water> ult: useless?
<ult> Well, it looks like writing a real-world application would be -extremely-...counterintuitive in slate?
<water> why?
<water> ult: you ever use smalltalk?
<ult> no control structures, no side effects, no block nesting/
<water> lol
08:20pm
<water> they're there, but they are not primitives
<ult> sounds...slow...
<water> heh
<water> it's dynamically compiled
<water> with type inferencer etc
<water> (er... will be :)
<ult> so it -is- slow? =)
<water> heh
<water> yes, right now i'm the only implementation :)
<ult> I'm not trying to disrespect your language or anything -- I'm just trying to understand it =)
<water> it's ok
<eihrul> water: pondering... given (object (selector arg)) and (object selector)
<eihrul> my mind sees: (selector arg) => (object selector)
<water> hm