IRC log started Wed Apr 19 00:00:01 2000 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0419 [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Invis (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed nicholas (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed LaGgEr (This nick is reserved by another user) 12:10am * eihrul/#tunes is trying to weed out unbounded regressions. heh hm what's the issue? well, its not terminating... it's meta-'ing itself to hell and back duh i presume its on the apply phase s/its/it's/ how do you have it defined? ;;; (object selector') => method' ::= ((object meta) (lookup (selector : selector') (in : object))) ;;; ((method' meta) (apply (method : method') (to : object))) for right now hm oic i think using (method' meta) in the apply phase might be the problem 12:20am * water/#tunes takes a look at the papers on the moostrap mo's does this make sense to you? yes, but the regressions always mess up my code somehow :) apply method: NIL to: method hmm, that's bad... in the original papers, the result of the lookup was what gets sent the applyTo message we could either have that be a method-closure or a temp meta-object, but i can't see how it would be the method's mo there's also the fact that you don't have a primitive apply or lookup, it seems hm does this make sense? s/this/that/ 12:30am well? working on it [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com calvino.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) 12:40am -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Read error to water[tnt-10-155.tscnet.net]: Connection reset by peer) -:- water [water@tnt-10-155.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes welp it works now, somewhat 01:20am [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed nate37 (GHOST command used by nate37_) -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you) -:- core [core@proto6.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes whoa [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed kavandi (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- SignOff core: #TUNES (Ping timeout for core[proto6.suntech.fr]) 01:40am hohum well, never-the-less, eval2.lisp-alpha is functional sorry, was busy in another window thx i just stuck the apply phase back into the receiver as opposed to the method :/ sorry i need to get some rest well, it'll evaluate small expressions like: (evaluate *slate-/* '(/ top print)) cya tomorrow -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (The Tao went that-a-way!) [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net aramata.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net junction: devlin.openprojects.net aramata.openprojects.net [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from aramata.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net aramata.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net jordan.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) 02:00am [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed darkewolf (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com jordan.openprojects.net [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from jordan.openprojects.net. 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[openprojects]!king.openprojects.net calvino.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- nate37 [nate37@ppp-206-117-3-72.dialup.pcmagic.net] has joined #tunes -:- Ghyll [karltk@msx-osl-15-21.ppp.cybercity.no] has joined #tunes -:- nate37 [nate37@ppp-206-117-3-72.dialup.pcmagic.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Read error to hcf[me-portland-us247.javanet.com]: Connection reset by peer) [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net break: forward.openprojects.net pohl.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net junction: varley.openprojects.net pohl.openprojects.net [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from pohl.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net pohl.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed TSBandit (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed h4nf (GHOST command used by h4nf_) -:- SignOff Ghyll: #TUNES (bae) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed NightSwan (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- core [core@proto6.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff core: #TUNES (Ping timeout for core[proto6.suntech.fr]) -:- core [core@proto6.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed LaGgEr (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- SignOff core: #TUNES (Ping timeout for core[proto6.suntech.fr]) [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net services1.openprojects.net adding GLINE for *@oirsa.org.gt, expiring at 956161909: Your domain is temporarily restricted from access. For more information, please email support@openprojects.net. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net G-line active for BlZktV^HG[oirsa.org.gt] [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed sgore (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- core [core@proto6.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff core: #TUNES (Ping timeout for core[proto6.suntech.fr]) -:- core [core@proto6.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff core: #TUNES (Ping timeout for core[proto6.suntech.fr]) -:- core [core@proto6.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed parks (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- SignOff core: #TUNES (Ping timeout for core[proto6.suntech.fr]) -:- core [core@mcp.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes -:- core [core@mcp.suntech.fr] has left #tunes [] -:- core [core@mcp.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes -:- core [core@mcp.suntech.fr] has left #tunes [] -:- core_ [core@proto6.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff core_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for core_[proto6.suntech.fr]) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed DraX (GHOST command used by DraX_) -:- core_ [core@proto6.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed LaGgEr (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- SignOff core_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for core_[proto6.suntech.fr]) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed khemicals (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- core [core@proto6.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes kookay, thsis is the first t(working) test of running ircii6-epic from within clementine :) -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[esmeralda.enst.fr]) -:- Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes haha -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[esmeralda.enst.fr]) 08:00am -:- Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- SignOff core: #TUNES (Read error to core[proto6.suntech.fr]: Connection reset by peer) -:- core [core@proto6.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes ok mr.log, log this :) backspace sisnt mapped yetm but it works! :)))) > -:- SignOff core: #TUNES (ircII EPIC4pre2.505 -- Accept no limitations) hum -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (Ping timeout for abi[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by king.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from varley.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is varley.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from varley.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 12 02:19 EDT(from varley.openprojects.net) -:- varley.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(27)] 3% -:- [global users on irc(447)] 46% -:- [invisible users on irc(521)] 54% -:- [ircops on irc(20)] 2% -:- [total users on irc(968)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(33)] (avg. 29 users per server) -:- [total channels created(345)] (avg. 2 users per channel) !varley.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 58 (53 clients) !varley.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 3 ca 2(2) ft 14(14) tr. -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Topic for #TUNES: Tunes - Free, Reflective Computing System: http://www.tunes.org/ || Slate Tutorial: http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-tutorial.html -:- topic set by water [Mon Apr 17 19:38:22 2000] -:- [Users(#tunes:8)] [ TUNES ] [ abi ] [ Fare ] [ smoke ] [ lar-food ] [ zarq ] [ smkl ] [ thomas ] -:- Channel #tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 6.382 secs!! -:- Mode change [-ws] for user TUNES 08:10am -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by varley.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Use /Server to connect to a server -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from lackey.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is lackey.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from lackey.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 12 02:19 EDT(from lackey.openprojects.net) -:- lackey.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(74)] 8% -:- [global users on irc(448)] 46% -:- [invisible users on irc(531)] 54% -:- [ircops on irc(20)] 2% -:- [total users on irc(979)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(33)] (avg. 29 users per server) -:- [total channels created(344)] (avg. 2 users per channel) !lackey.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 98 (97 clients) !lackey.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 2 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr. -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Topic for #TUNES: Tunes - Free, Reflective Computing System: http://www.tunes.org/ || Slate Tutorial: http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-tutorial.html -:- topic set by water [Mon Apr 17 19:38:24 2000] -:- [Users(#tunes:7)] [ TUNES ] [@Fare ] [ smoke ] [ lar-food ] [ zarq ] [ smkl ] [ thomas ] -:- Channel #tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 7.237 secs!! -:- Mode change [-ws] for user TUNES -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes que reste-t-il a Linux? 08:30am -:- coreyr [coreyr@net255ip95.parklink.com] has joined #tunes -:- core [core@proto6.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes okay; should be better now :) hehe i still can't believe this works. it's running in dumb_mode, but still :) hi core! hey smoke! core: great to see clementine supports the most important computer technology now :) what, irc? definitely :) yeah :) well, irc per se would have worked months ago if i/we bothered to write a client.. but this is ircii-epic itself :) do you run it natively or in a linux-like wrapper? with a wrapper :) but not linux-like; just a thin c library that maps into the right components so it's not more wrapped than in linux itself :) -:- XeF4 [xef4@194.255.106.103] has joined #tunes core: I'm working on something similar to what smoke described clementine as.. xef4: you are? nice. do tell :) * core/#tunes is just happy he got that to work ;) core: I'm working on a kernel-less OS in which everything is an object/code fragment and a layered messaging protocol is used to create object trees -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us905.javanet.com] has joined #tunes core: so modules may recurse arbitrarily deeply, given resources vsta-like, then xef4: i see; nice.. well, clem chooses the way to communicate between components, messages aren't imposed single address space, or multiple? hey hcf, i'm ircii-ing from within clem :) core: cool took the bsd tcp stack? core: aha.. had to do it this way for performance and ease of implementation 09:00am hcf: yeah, considering how much stupid effort it takes in libc wrapping, for that to work :) (string, unistd, socket, etc) fare: yep xef4: it's less performant to impose messages.. core: since this is a work project and I must have a demoable prototype SOON xef4: but don't take my word for it :) core: then how are you communicating between modules? xef4: yeah, no pb really :) xef4: it depends where they are situated core: couldn't take the glibc or bsd libc? fare: i could, but i don't want native applicative components to require a libc core: okay.. give one example :) fare: writing the right functionality in components, then makng wrappers, gives more control.. sure fare: i guess it'll still be good to port glibc later tho, for the annoying linux programs that need some weird stuff in it how does clem handle namespace issues? but i'm not cluttering clem with stupid posixisms where irrelevant :) fare: in what space :) core: is there some way I could try clem? xef4: sept 1st, official opensource release :) export POSIXLY_CORRECT=1 =( this is an official date; no pushing back :) fare: #define ANALLY_POSIX POSIXLY_CORRECT ? :) :) sept 1st, ok. Which year? 2000, like this year :) * smoke/#tunes goes to get some sleep for about 4 months hm.. then I'll have to keep working on this one (20.5.2000 prototype deadline= ) xef4: sure.. oh, so that's WHY you were asking :)) xef4: anything visible of your project? core: we only started implementing yesterday lol :) so.. no xef4: ahh.. :) specs then? (just curious of the coopetition, y'know) 09:10am core: I don't have permission to release them until we have a prototype xef4: okay :) xef4: no problem, just asking :) maybe not even until release 09:20am core: does clememtine support deep recursion each module able to access some subset of its parent's resouces? so you could run deeply nested schedulers, etc 09:30am -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp11.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes core: hmmm... -:- Kyle_L [kyle@cr168790-a.nmkt1.on.wave.home.com] has joined #Tunes core: also.. is a process a "process" or is it just some code with an entry in a process management module? the latter, i'd assume no less 09:40am nice.. 09:50am * core/#tunes returns sorry, walking around suntech :) hey eih xef4: yes, it can recurse functionality core: and does it have some high-level glue for viewing the whole mess of modules as words in a functional language? that'd be the IDL eihrul: which clementine has? 10:00am yes hm.. are there any precedents of this before clementine? 10:10am core: WAKE UP 10:30am -:- SignOff coreyr: #TUNES (bbl) -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[15dyn82.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn126.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff XeF4: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- nate37 [nate@ppp-206-117-3-217.dialup.pcmagic.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff nate37: #TUNES (nate37 has no reason) -:- Ghyll [karltk@msx-osl-15-43.ppp.cybercity.no] has joined #tunes -:- lar-food is now known as lar1 -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Read error to lar1[adsl-63-204-135-209.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net]: No route to host) -:- lar1 [larman@adsl-63-204-135-209.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp11.lvdi.net]) -:- SignOff Ghyll: #TUNES (boot) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us825.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- water [water@tnt-10-82.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes hey all hoy water hm core is here sorry i pretty much fell over asleep on the terminal last night :) water: did u get my post to review@ ? the one last night? yes k hm actually a few new tunes posts n/m just one from fare and two private msg's there are quite a few people here. anyone want to talk? 05:40pm -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp125.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes hey eih hey i haven't had a chance yet to use the new evaluator but i'll definitely toy with it tonight -:- The8Ball [ShadowTech@pm41-217-220.worldpath.net] has joined #tunes -:- The8Ball [ShadowTech@pm41-217-220.worldpath.net] has left #tunes [] well, guess he wasn't interested in tunes... 05:50pm blah 06:00pm -:- sphere [a@d130.focal6.interaccess.com] has joined #tunes hi sphere hi water how's it goin? good and bad god i hate windows 06:20pm * sphere/#tunes chuckles i was just commin in, in hopes that fare was around... thought he might be able to help with something, but that's probably too optimistic, considering he's in france you wouldn't happen to know where to find the protocal for ms mice would ya? lol you were going to ask fare about that? sphere: borg.qzx.com/infoz sphere: I hope... :) thanks np servers down Tis mirrored on tunes hold a sec shure -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving) 06:30pm -:- lar1 [larman@adsl-63-204-135-209.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #tunes sphere: Is the DCC not working? i see it "acgnolging send request" Hmm but i ain't getting anything Ok http://www.tunes.org/~lar1/mouse_hw.txt I can't find the tunes mirror, so I pulled the relevent file for you. thanks... reading it now NP, hope it helps! :) ah ha! i found my first problem! (i've been trying to reverse engineer the protocall :) i just got a page, i gotta get off the phone to respond, but i'll probably be back later. thanks for your help lar Heh, not reccomended :). Accually, this is kinda off-topic for #tunes. #osdev or #dolphin might be better suited for this. Sure :) -:- SignOff sphere: #TUNES (Leaving) * water/#tunes sighes 06:40pm lisp is soo nice a concept until you meet up with the bloat of common lisp indeed problem is... lisp is dying out already, before a new lisp has a chance :) care to clarify? hm ok well, do you see much lisp hype lately? :) it doesn't need hype -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp137.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes or it least, it hasn't so far lisp! well, yeah... but that hype inadvertently attracts developers for lisp itself.... which are needed to write good compilers :) i really like common lisp so far true smoke: what about something more like scheme? water: i like the big standard library better ok how do i get eval2.lisp to run? water: and the 'types' attracted the optimization me towards common lisp big std libs suck water: load it up, (in-package slate), (evaluate *slate-/* '(top print)) k water: not really water: they're handy :) 06:50pm anyway * water/#tunes slogs through acl arcania gah! -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you) eih: i don't suppose you could just pass me a binary ? oh wait, of course you could only give me a linux binary, unless cmucl can cross-compile (not likely) great, i get to try to figure out how to use this cl package without help 07:00pm -:- SignOff zarq: #TUNES (Ping timeout for zarq[9dyn50.delft.casema.net]) :) what? :) (load "slate.lisp") it should just be load, in-package, evaluate... yeah well acl seems to like to hide the evaluator -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving) you try (slate:evaluate)? where?!? alternatively, just remove the (defpackage) and (in-package) part of the file, and should load into current package... aha! * water/#tunes has finally found the lisp prompt does load handle paths properly? in cmucl, it doesn't respect the current working directory... in ACL there should be a directive :ld that does well this ain't cmucl :) i'd have to be offline to get to linux (cmucl works in windows too, no?) well cl has already earned massive negative points for accessibility don't blame implementation failure on a language oh no i really do like lisp -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp291.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes scheme for instance is nice (though lacking still) but there's no environment nearly as good as a smalltalk environment for lisp you really like smalltalk.. why is that? did you grew up on apple? 07:10pm huh? no <_ruiner_> odd isn't it smoke? kinda reminds me of a dog rolling in manure... hm language wars brewing? ok i got the package loaded fine, but (evaluate *slate-/* '(top print)) returns gibberish it should say atleast "slate-print-result: top: ..." yeah the ... is unintelligible to me all is well then ok time to scrutinize the source then since there's obviously no other way to figure out what the evaluator's state is keep in mind here if i enter get thrown into the debugger, i don't know the syntax to leave it -:- zarq [zarq@10dyn243.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes s/enter// water: (trace function-here) where fh = ? and it shows you all parameters to the function on each invocation i.e. (trace object-lookup) hm vastly informative -:- ult [ult@user-37kba2a.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes great, now i'm in a debug loop maybe i should just write the damned thing in smalltalk 07:20pm at least then it wouldn't take a clhs to teach someone what it did -:- lar1 [larman@adsl-63-204-135-209.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #tunes eih: how did you learn to use common lisp? book oh great, yet another $50 investment i haven't spent a dime on smalltalk, you know well, if by "use" you mean program * eihrul/#tunes shrugs. neither have i i'm just saying that smalltalk environments usually don't need nearly as much documentation i honestly have no idea how to start using this thing well, that is a fallacy of common lisp, i can't refute that... well it would be nice if the documentation were up front so you had to learn to use the function that disabled the newbie feature water: i've learned common lisp from tutorials like 'succesfull lisp' http://psg.com/~dlamkins/left/sl/sl.html very easy to understand for instance, if i get thrown into the debugger (or whatever it is, an exception mechanism?) there's no obvious way to get back to the prompt uh yes there is water: that depends on the implementation.. in cmucl it's 'q', in clisp it's C-d oh yeah that's REAL f***ing obvious I've never seen an implementation that does not give you instructions on how to exit it and for acl? water: no it's not, but try to get out of gdb with the mouse :) :continue 0 perhaps :0 in others Error in KERNEL::UNBOUND-SYMBOL-ERROR-HANDLER: the variable |QUI| is unbound. Restarts: 0: [ABORT] Return to Top-Level. Debug (type H for help) ah that's what they mean you get out of the debugger by entering a restart which basically does just that -- restarts the Lisp at a given point, whether it be after the offending function would have returned, or to the toplevel, or somewhere inbetween you see, they mention :continue and list the numbers with their functions, but they don't tell you that the syntax is not lisp-based ult: no kidding 07:30pm water: debugger is seperate from lisp though it does allow lisp expressions to be input -- read your Lisp environments manual, it should document this (I know ACL and CMUCL's do) no thanks i just want to use this slate package, not learn common lisp :) a lisp like cmucl is not the ideal language for an application you wish to distribute to the masses -- in that case your better off buying a version of ACL or LWL or something that supports creation of self-supporting images i don't care, ult * ult/#Tunes sighs <_ruiner_> not your day, eh ult? <_ruiner_> heh heh....vb dev <_ruiner_> do you paint with your toes? <_ruiner_> brb -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you) i just love coming home from a frustrating day at work to find out i have to learn several MB of lisp functions just to use a 5k package of my own programming language 07:40pm eih: is there any way you could make the thing a real interpreter instead of a bare package? yep would it take much? nope... but it'll still run under lisp :) well as long as i don't have to tell users how to use common lisp in order to use my tutorial, i don't care you see what i'm getting at? should just have to type (slate), a prompt will come up typing just quit will exit otherwise, it will evaluate the expression -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat) good hm i guess i pissed him off -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp125.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes doh oops water: Guess not :) i thought i pissed you off or something -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z) note... alt-c is suprisingly easy to press so is every other keystroke combination which is why i hate 'em yes... but alt-c happens to close windows destructively :) 07:50pm exactly okay, this is something that can be worked with hm although nothing intuitive seems to work like? dunno, say (root clone) oh, cloning :) one second yeah that little thing called cloning that's needed so you can make objects :) there, that one has a clone primitive :) no offense, but why didn't you include it sooner? * eihrul/#tunes shrugs. i just didn't, afaik i mean, most of what you had to do was cookbook it from the paper (the paper on reflection in prototype-based langs) 08:00pm > (top (print clone)) slate-print-result: top works :) yeah, having troubles with windows again, hold on as a convenience, the name of (foo clone) is foo-clone so it is distuinguishable upon output from foo i.e. ((top clone clone) print) slate-print-result: top-clone-clone ok although eventually the idea is that (foo clone) returns an anonymous object that goes nowhere unless you set a slot to it somewhere in a small system like this, the root namespace would work fine for this -:- SignOff Kyle_L: #TUNES (Leaving) can i do anything with root-clone once it is made? like? like clone it ;) ((root clone) clone) => (root clone clone) => root-clone-clone, yep yeah but ... * eihrul/#tunes makes another primitive method to view an object slotwise. > (root clone) root-clone > (root-clone clone) Error: `NIL' is not of the expected type `HASH-TABLE' [condition type: TYPE-ERROR] Restart actions (select using :continue): 0: Return to Top Level (an "abort" restart) 1: Abort # [1] USER(9): oh, well, the clone is just lot... sorry for the flood it gets printed, but never gets set to anything ok so it's a dead-end (this is actually appropriate) hm see what "root clone clone" produces well, what it should for now :) which is?? root 08:10pm what's with the next 2 lines of output? it evaluates as if you had typed three distinct expressions to three different prompts hm does "/" work? keep in mind, i'm testing here well, right now "/" is the name of the "root namespace" object for lack of a better name what about the tutorial business? eh? how would i change the evaluator's curent namespace from the prompt? well, if you want to give a sample expression, i'll make it work :) hm well this requires you to be able to place slots into the / namespace otherwise there's no other namespace to enter :) and yes a listSlots primitive (for now) would help -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Leaving) which takes the current namespace as its argument (implicit) okay, have a view primitive now 08:20pm k so can you shift namespaces without re-designing the current framework? well, as i said, give me the desired expression to shift the namespace of the evaluator :) hm well there are a few in the tutorial, but they use "/" as a primitive message, which would be confusing i.e. "foo /" puts you in foo if you can think of a better syntax, you're welcome to implement it well, the lisp tokenizer treats () as lists :) so i'd need to write a more specialized one... well, (foo /) should i rename the root namespace? :) dunno you could call it "world" for now ok remember of course that world contains itself 08:30pm ok... sending you what i have so far with no guarentee that it is any way still feature complete :) wow a whole 6k now ;) '/ is now a method that changes the slot "workspace" in "world" and the message "view" will let you view an object's slots ok -:- lar1 is now known as lar-food should i have a .. message as well? yeah its a slot in root doh, lisp doesn't like it :) oh cool, the view slot is nice can't call it .. :) hm too bad well you can either try to work with an independent parser or come up with a friendlier name i'll call it , for now 08:40pm uh a comma, right? rrr, doh, lisp doesn't like it either :/ too many reserved letters... :) maybe you should change parsers will see what i can do * water/#tunes tries to think of a lisp symbol for .. hm view looka at evaluator state, then, not a list of slots s/looka/looks/ view views current object what should it view? well, things like .., meta, root, parent are fine hm oic you put everything in world for now no not quite 08:50pm working on new parser 09:10pm okay 09:30pm -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us205.javanet.com] has joined #tunes sheesh, finally -:- coreyr [coreyr@net255ip95.parklink.com] has joined #tunes 10:20pm grr water? 10:40pm .. messages are now supported -:- SignOff lar-food: #TUNES (Leaving) so you can enter and leave current workspace 10:50pm -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Ping timeout for water[tnt-10-82.tscnet.net]) morning oops, i left that on all night :) hey i guess clem's ip stack is stable :) it should be after half a year :P well, this particular ip stack (bsd's) has only been working on clem for 6 weeks; before that we had ported a proprietary one. but anyway, don't want to pollute tunes logs with that :) [msg(TUNES)] newlog 2000.0420 IRC log ended Thu Apr 20 00:00:01 2000