IRC log started Thu May 11 00:00:01 2000 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0511 -:- SignOff td: #TUNES (td has no reason) -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (Ping timeout for abi[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff humvee: #TUNES (Read error to humvee[202.86.130.180]: Connection reset by peer) -:- NetSplit: varley.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [01:39am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [varley.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: varley.openprojects.net irc.linux.com -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (Ping timeout for abi[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- NetSplit: varley.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [02:24am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [varley.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: varley.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (Ping timeout for abi[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Kyle_L [kyle@cr168790-a.nmkt1.on.wave.home.com] has joined #Tunes -:- thomas [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes pooof ! 04:10am -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[lantier.enst.fr]) -:- Fare [rideaufr@lantier.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Read error to Fare[lantier.enst.fr]: Connection timed out) -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn194.delft.casema.net]) -:- SignOff Kyle_L: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn163.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- dalvarez [dalvarez@odin.sc.cs.tu-bs.de] has joined #tunes -:- Kyle_L [kyle@cr168790-a.nmkt1.on.wave.home.com] has joined #Tunes -:- dirt [cogito@riga13.mohawk.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn163.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn163.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- Fare [rideaufr@lantier.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn163.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn163.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff dalvarez: #TUNES (cu) -:- dirt [cogito@riga13.mohawk.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn163.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn163.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- XeF4 [xef4@194.255.106.43] has joined #tunes am I missing something, or can pliant not even compile itself (C parser core) pliant requires a C compiler to bootstrap (just like OCaml) (or most any language these days) Fare: but after bootstrap, can it self-host? if you want a C-free system, try eforth ;-> XeF4: yes, after bootstrap, it can self-host (unless you want to change the C-written parts) == "no" searching for eforth.. then eforth is not self-hosted, either, since it depends on gas (however, it's C-free) (and you may port a assembler to it if you wish) retro3 might be self-hosted 08:10am Fare: but gas is not c-fre e sure the LISP machine is C-free (well, a C compiler is provided; maybe so as to compile TeX) dedicated lisp machine? yes lisp hardware 08:20am -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn163.delft.casema.net]) -:- Kyle_La [Kyle@64.228.43.105] has joined #Tunes -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn124.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Kyle_La: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- smoke is now known as zark -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn124.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Read error to smoke[16dyn124.delft.casema.net]: Connection reset by peer) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn124.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Disconnecting) -:- coreyr [coreyr@net255ip95.parklink.com] has joined #tunes -:- zark is now known as smoke -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us421.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: TUNES, Free Reflective Computing System: http://www.tunes.org/ || Slate Language: http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-home.html -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn124.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn124.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- dirt [mindfvck@niantic0311.mohawk.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Kyle_L: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff dirt: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- _ruiner_ [blah@ppp066.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- Kyle_L [kyle@cr168790-a.nmkt1.on.wave.home.com] has joined #Tunes Would anyone know what an arrow, with both head an tail pointing to itself, is named? 01:40pm useless * coreyr/#tunes shrugs i dunno anything 01:50pm I thought it might be an "object". 02:00pm -:- Netjoined: lackey.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- Fare [rideaufr@lantier.enst.fr] has joined #tunes -:- iStormy [stormy@rain.futuresouth.com] has joined #tunes -:- water [water@tnt-9-5.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes hey all kyle: it acts like a ground arrow... you can call it "top" or "bottom" if you wish -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp44.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes re eih * eihrul/#tunes has decided to reinstate control flow. :) water: thanks np eih: what formalism, or should i care? -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z) 02:50pm you shouldn't care :) ok have you looked into cecil/vortex yet? not yet just got through with ap exams yeah likewise with work lately but vacation starts tomorrow !!! :) holy cow there's a GA tech project to wire a home with end-user scripting control using squeak, and it's going to be on a national tv show but will the show itself be convenient? convenient? if a show is aired and noone watches... does it make an impact? :) oh heh well, "good morning america" is well-watched iirc oh, i wouldn't know :) neither would i of course hmm, pre-scheme... what's that? "a scheme dialect for systems programming" i thought there was already a project for that 03:00pm * water/#tunes hmms -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us515.javanet.com] has joined #tunes hey hcf hey hm the topic's missing here, too -:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: TUNES, Free Reflective Computing System: http://www.tunes.org/ || Slate Language: http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-home.html 03:30pm * hcf/#tunes is away: (afk) * water/#tunes is completely confused about Kyle's system ideas after reading yesterday's logs hm i wonder how much of a complete #tunes ass ult really intends to be Yes. Slate is C. Well, it's an extension to C. Basically water wants to turn C into a prototyping language. someone kill him, please :) he was joking... if you read the newbie's comments before-hand, you'll see why * water/#tunes re-reads i was scanning, i'll look again hm ok jokes are really hard to get from the logs 03:50pm (seems to be that "timing" issue) 04:00pm water: what confuses you? why you have that problem with circularity about reflective systems and references I try so hard to be clear. I will try again. even if the problem exists, you can always isolate the circular system and cut it off as a whole Yes, that is what I have been doing so far. I do not see how it applies to the Garbage Collector oh geez look, most languages build reachability on a small set of clear rules I was just trying to avoid the manual flagging of weak/strong pointers oh I wanted the system to figure out what was weak and strong hm in squeak, weak pointers are emulated (i.e. no direct support) I did not care about implementation, nor about the GC implementation, those were trival and well documented. hm then someone else should answer your question I have implemented the manual flagging of strong sets, and the GC. It is slow. have you heard of hypersets, btw? 04:20pm sounds familiar. they are sets that can contain themselves (also classes) ok the book "vicious circles" covers them quite well anything interesting or new. I use "hypersets" lots. hm i think i have a paper you would like heh if i can find it abi: cecil? cecil is object oriented programming language at http://www.cs.washington.edu/research/projects/cecil/www/cecil-home.html 04:30pm hmm, vortex sounds nifty hmm, chambers :) yes, chambers :) i really should go talk to him in person was chambers a self developer? yeah he seems to have done a little bit of everything... yeah but i can't see that he's done much lately doesn't make his past work any less valid well, no 04:40pm mmm, multimethods water: hmmm, thanks... many good papers here np of course take note on compiler times and output of vortex 04:50pm -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (The Tao went that-a-way!) -:- water [water@tnt-10-23.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes -:- lar1 [larman@adsl-63-203-74-39.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Hell... 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You are on 4 ca 1(2) ft 14(14). -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Topic for #TUNES: TUNES, Free Reflective Computing System: http://www.tunes.org/ || Slate Language: http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-home.html -:- topic set by hcf [Thu May 11 15:29:40 2000] -:- [Users(#tunes:11)] [ TUNES ] [ hcf ] [ ult ] [ water ] [ eihrul ] [ iStormy ] [ coreyr ] [ XeF4 ] [ thomas ] [ abi ] [ smkl ] -:- Channel #tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 9.568 secs!! -:- Mode change [-ws] for user TUNES -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- delak [delak@mpk.lodz.pdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn161.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes smooook 11:00pm -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us324.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- delak [delak@mpk.lodz.pdi.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us324.javanet.com]) -:- SignOff iStormy: #TUNES (Bye) [msg(TUNES)] newlog 2000.0512 IRC log ended Fri May 12 00:00:01 2000