IRC log started Thu Jun 15 00:00:00 2000
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0615
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!fastlane.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 123 (118 clients)
!fastlane.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects!  You are on 4 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr.
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-:- Topic for #TUNES: TUNES: http://www.tunes.org/ || Slate: http://www.arrow.cx/slate-home.html || Slate Tutorial: http://diktuon.arrow.cx/list.php?ns=tutorial || Zope Review Database: http://zope.tunes.org/Review/
-:- topic set by water [Wed Jun 14 01:14:31 2000]
-:- [Users(#tunes:6)] 
[ TUNES     ] [ smoke     ] [ abi       ] [ Fare      ] [ mabus     ] 
[ coreyr    ] 
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-:- fastlane.openprojects.net 958975633 -2102986  Thursday June 15 2000 -- 09:16 -05:00
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<thomas> sjohoo!
<thomas> well, i'check out that Slate tutorial!
09:40am
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<water> eih: done with that paper yet? :)
<eihrul> nope, just woke up
<water> ok
12:00pm
<coreyr> eihrul: you too?
<water> heh
12:10pm
* washort/#tunes is back from being away. Aren't you lucky?
<water> hm
<water> slate primitives = (linear?) graph rewrite rules
12:30pm
<water> just think... Fare knew about linear naming/typing a long time ago and never bothered to really explain it thoroughly or refer to papers properly
12:40pm
<coreyr> webdb!
<water> heh
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12:50pm
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<water> hm
<water> given slate's syntax, i wonder if everything anonymous exactly corresponds to a linear resource
<water> since once something is made, unless it is named it can only get consumed by something else
<water> s/named/given a named slot in another object/
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<water> and this is a different kind of handling of linear resources than the named slots, since named slots (somehow) persist
<water> comments?
01:00pm
<eihrul> <- reading
<water> i know
* water/#tunes has to go soon
<eihrul> there is no way something can get consumed in slate without being named
01:10pm
<water> hm
<water> i suppose... i was thinking in terms of allocating slots not directly by computing results
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<water> so we have reduced all expressions possible to the invocation of (linear?) names
01:20pm
<water> bbl
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01:40pm
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-:- mode/#tunes [+o Tril] by ChanServ
<hcf> Tril: where'd lynx go?
<Tril> dunno.  apt-get deinstalled it for some reason
<Tril> I'll add it as soon as the upgrade finishes
<hcf> k
02:10pm
<hcf> there was split this morn, it didnt seem the logger would return, is why i mailed u
<Tril> good thing I'm watching this upgrade, so far it's killed inetd, syslogd, and named and didnt restart them
<coreyr> heh
02:20pm
<Tril>  Oh great, it killed sendmail
<Tril> may as well switch to postfix and Mailman while it's not receiving mail, eh?
<washort> heh :)
<washort> i need to convince my boss of that. :)
<hcf> Tril: and update mhonarc so it'll so the years in the right order
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<Tril> hcf: As I said.. I'm switching to Mailman.. it has built in archiving
<hcf> oh ok
<Tril> I'll try to convert all the archives to it
<washort> mailman is nifty
<Tril> There's no way to subscribe/unsubscribe through e-mail, is there? You have to go to the web page?
02:30pm
<Tril> here goes perl
<Tril> washort: are you from WCUG?
<washort> hmm.
<washort> i don't even remember what WCUG is.
<washort> s/remember/know/
<Tril> WWU computer user's group
<Tril> i thought I saw you in their #WCUG channel, here
<Tril> could be wrong
<washort> i doubt it.
<HenZo> Hey Tril does WCUG meet during the summer?
<Tril> yep
<hcf> u can take the WCUG discussion to #WCUG
02:40pm
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<Tril> restarting log bots
-:- Signon time  :    Thu Mar 16 21:33:25 2000
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IRC log ended Thu Jun 15 14:46:45 2000
IRC log started Thu Jun 15 15:06:22 2000
[1;30m[[0;31mmsg[1;30m([1;31mtunes[1;30m)] [0mpermlog 2000.0615[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37mabi[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0mdying by hcf's request[1;30m)[0m
IRC log started Thu Jun 15 15:07:33 2000
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m wtf, it reverted to the old way[0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m what is "it"?[0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m the db poop, old way has .pag and .dir files[0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m I don't know.  Does "file x.db" say it's a new ver?[0m
03:10pm
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m .db says Berkeley DB 1.85   .pag says GNU dbm 1.x or ndbm database[0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m I mean did you create a new .db file? It should say Berkeley DB 2.X[0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m i havnt done anything yet[0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m too busy pissing and moaning ;)[0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m then what "reverted"?[0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m well, it created the old style files[0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m so something is up[0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m it's a new perl version..[0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m brb[0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m back[0m
03:20pm
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37mhcf[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0mPing timeout for hcf[207-172-225-227.s227.tnt1.pld.me.dialup.rcn.com][1;30m)[0m
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[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m Tril: hey the logs have color tags in em now[0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m plz rm em[0m
03:40pm
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m What?[0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m see the end of today's log[0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m Not right now...[0m
[1;30m[[1;35mcoreyr[1;30m([0;35mcoreyr@net255ip95.parklink.com[1;30m)][0m ARRRGHHH![0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [1;36mbillh [1;30m[[0;36mbillh@cx739861-a.dt1.sdca.home.com[1;30m][0m has joined #tunes[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m Where's water ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m Hello washort ;-)[0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m Whew!! I can get mail![0m
03:50pm
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[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m dangit[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37mabi[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0mdying by hcf's request[1;30m)[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m hcf: hey, do you know where that chaitin paper was? :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m title?[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m it was on incompleteness[0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m this one? A Century of Controversy Over the Foundations of Mathematics at http://www.umcs.maine.edu/~chaitin/cmu.html[0m
04:00pm
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37msmklsmkl[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0mback tomorrow[1;30m)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m chaitin rocks.[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m yah[0m
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[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m Closing Link: modtunes[bespin.dhs.org] by asprin.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for modtunes[bespin.dhs.org])
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[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m BitchX: For more information about BitchX type /about
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m Welcome to the Internet Relay Network modtunes (from gaarder.openprojects.net)
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m Your host is gaarder.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.06.26.(nom4) (from gaarder.openprojects.net)
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m This server was cobbled together Thu Apr 13 2000 at 12:18:28 MDT (from gaarder.openprojects.net)
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m gaarder.openprojects.net u2.10.06.26.(nom4) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv 
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[1;32m[openprojects][0m  Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 4 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr.[0m
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[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m Channel #modtunes was created at Thu Jun 15 16:20:08 2000
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[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m abi's up, seen.db is hosed, and her are/is DBs r from the 10th which i'l update[0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m water: tril upgraded bespin, mest abi up a bit[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m oh[0m
[1;30m* [1;33mwater/#tunes [0mwaves to people[0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m and the logs have shit in em[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [1;36mbillh [1;30m[[0;36mbillh@cx739861-a.dt1.sdca.home.com[1;30m][0m has joined #tunes[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m so i see[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m hmm[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m Hello water. ;-)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m hi bill[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m What's up ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m eihrul: done with paper?[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m water I was talking about how lame GtkObject is on #gnome/irc.gnome.org[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m It was pretty funny.[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m oh[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m billh: did you reference vms?[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m coreyr: yes[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m eihrul: slate![0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m abi: apld is Advanced Programming Language Design, available online at http://cseng.aw.com/bookdetail.qry?ISBN=0-8053-1191-2&ptype=0[0m
[1;34m<[0mabi[1;34m>[0m ...but apld is advanced programming language & design at http://cseng.aw.com/bookdetail.qry?ISBN=0-8053-1191-2&ptype=179...[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m coreyr Huh ? VMS ?[0m
05:00pm
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m billh: yeah vms.[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m vms ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m what about vms ? and which vms ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m not the OS right ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m so anyway[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m eih: what ideas did you get from that paper? what stood out to you?[0m
[1;30m* [1;33meihrul/#tunes [0mshrugs.[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m coreyr I was primarily telling why GtkObject is a poor screwball Objective-C.[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m They basically built the thing without the foresight of a mature OOP reference point.[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m water: other than a resemblance between slate and a linear graph reduction machine, nothing too already inherent in slate :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m sure[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m water: so what does . do exactly :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m but what about the discussions earlier about mutability?[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m water: if you consider objects vertices, slots as terminals, and apply as a method for reduction[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m with the one notable difference that "result" is more general in the LGRM, in that you can have many[0m
05:10pm
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m well...[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m fg[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37mbillh[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0m[BX] Gary Coleman uses BitchX. Whatchoo talkin bout foo?[1;30m)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m slate could do that with a little overhead.... transformations of objects and such[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [1;36mbillh [1;30m[[0;36mbillh@cx739861-a.dt1.sdca.home.com[1;30m][0m has joined #tunes[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m its just that in slate you have the extra dimension[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m i'm just wondering what kind of system for reduction we should use?[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m he doesn't really cover what exactly "methods" are[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m whereas that's a central issue in slate :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m no, he doesn't[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m he leaves a lot unanswered, but then it's still a good paper for its time[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m i'm thinking that "." would simply be a rewrite rule that acted to "pull" a reference to the looked up object back through the namespace links[0m
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[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m well, another related question... what effect does lookup have exactly? :)[0m
05:20pm
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m effect?[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m well, what exactly is lookup...[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m hm i thought it was pretty obvious[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m you're feeding the evaluator name objects which get looked up in the object currently selected by the evaluator[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m well, it creates all that non-linearity stuff :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m and there's implicit recursive lookup through "parent" slots[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m huh?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m it doesn't even mute the graph[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m although sharing of parents is of course non-linear[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m (unless you use "copy" objects)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m otherwise, i don't grok what you're saying[0m
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[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m hm[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m quite the stormy day for opn[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m dont rock the boat.[0m
05:30pm
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m so[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m what about it, eihrul?[0m
[1;30m* [1;33meihrul/#tunes [0mshrugs.[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m boy, you're a real help :P[0m
[1;30m* [1;33mbillh/#tunes [0mbuilds KDE 1.90[0m
05:40pm
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37mTril[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0mMy damn controlling terminal disappeared![1;30m)[0m
[1;35m<[0mTUNES[1;35m>[0m crap[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m heh[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [1;36mlmaxson [1;30m[[0;36mlmaxson@adsl-63-194-24-207.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net[1;30m][0m has joined #tunes[0m
06:00pm
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m lmaxson [1;30m[[0mlmaxson@adsl-63-194-24-207.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net[1;30m][0m has left #tunes [1;30m[[1;37m[1;30m][0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m so eihrul[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m since you were the one suggesting we make cloning and inheritance seperate mechanisms[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m what do you think of using the "Copy" object idea of bawden's?[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m well, doesn't "copy" directly correspond to "clone"?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m not quite[0m
06:10pm
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m in this case, "copy" would replace the original object's place and delegate to it.... but there would be another handle to the Copy object which would function as the clone[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m they're the same in overall concept of course[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m but earlier we were just considering a clone to be a nonlinear reference to the original object[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m this way, it's linear[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m so it's possible to keep track of mutations without a lot of complexity creeping up invisibly[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m am i not making sense or something?[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m eh?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m bah[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m you're obviously busy with something else[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m yep :)[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [1;36mwashort [1;30m[[0;36mwashort@d102.narrowgate.net[1;30m][0m has joined #tunes[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m i'm a linear resource unfortunately with simulated non-linearity :P[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m what're you up to, incidentally?[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m finishing up all the SSA papers[0m
06:20pm
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m oh[0m
06:30pm
[1;30m* [1;33mcoreyr/#tunes [0mis away: party[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37mcoreyr[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0m[x]chat[1;30m)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m gotta go to work in an hour[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [1;36mlmaxson [1;30m[[0;36mlmaxson@adsl-63-194-24-207.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net[1;30m][0m has joined #tunes[0m
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[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m where's work for you ? and doing what ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m heh[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m i work on an aircraft carrier on nuclear reactors[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m that explains a lot[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m such as?[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m that's the question[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m WTF for ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m man, that shit must suck.[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m yep[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m it pays the bills, though, and no one has a fscking clue what kind of person i really am there[0m
06:50pm
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m as opposed to college where they classify and assimilate[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m so you just overtake everybody there ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m nope[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m They just ignore you and you do your own thing ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m heh[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m they make me write db apps now, but before i was just a technician[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m what the fuck for ?[0m
[1;30m* [1;33mFare/#Tunes [0mgotta found a startup in october[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m Fare: have fun...[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m bill: what do you mean?[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m what kind of DB apps are you writting ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m oh[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m admin stuff.... lot's of it[0m
[1;30m* [1;33mbillh/#tunes [0mwaits for KDE to build.[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m Fare: so is it going to make anything more useful than Merlintec has produced? :P[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m Water what do you think of CORBA ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m I'll have to talk to my lawyer before I can answer :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m Fare: i.e. nothing[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m bill: i think i'll ignore it[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m have you looked at it enough to be sick of it ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m yes[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m 2 years ago[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m Because it's a least common demoninator hack ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m among other things, sure[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m i'm more concerned with semantics-directed software composition than anything else[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m not a glorified linker[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m Ok, Yeah, i agree by the way. ;-)[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m That stuff is most interesting.[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m CORBA? My, it was proposed to MOOSE, I think, and I puked, at the time[0m
[1;30m* [1;33mwater/#tunes [0mlooks up the ferry schedule[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m Fare explain ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m it only addresses the easy part[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m not anything about the hard part[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m The hard part being what to do with the object in the runtime ?[0m
07:00pm
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m and the possible complex interactions of that with the language ?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m damn... a 2 hour commute[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m only 80 minutes coming back, though[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m You're fucked.[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m Fare: bawden's linear naming paper and Slate[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m Fare: what do you think?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m i mean his 156-page dissertation, of course[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m quite interesting[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m if you mean: now what is reusable about it?[0m
[1;30m* [1;33mwater/#tunes [0mnods[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m i think i can formulate slate in terms of the ideas of the paper pretty easily[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m then I'm not sure about the granularity, but the remote-object model is good.[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m i just need a way to have a meta-system that can analyze the graph structure of the namespaces without actually being part of evaluation[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m yeah, i can't re-use his ideas "as is"[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m hm[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m what a load of things to think about[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m i need a new pda[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m when are pda's coming out with 200mhz strongarm's?[0m
07:10pm
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m wanna make one?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m that's pretty funny[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m or have i not been clear about time constraints in my life?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m oh well[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37mwater[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0mThe Tao went that-a-way![1;30m)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m Fare: hey, long time no see[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m indeed[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m what you doing on #tunes?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m Fare: i'm very thankful that someone has written a paper on metaprogramming that makes the major issues understandable to "normal" programmers. :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m Fare: i'm wishing for OSes and languages that Don't Suck.[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m slate and tunes seem to be very good candidates for that. :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m washort: my mpfas paper?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m yes.[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m thanks[0m
07:20pm
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m i think a big obstacle to important advances like this is the general lack of understanding amongst programmers -[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m AFAICS stuff like this isn't even taught in CS programs, usually[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m CS programs?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m so i'm very interested in 'selling' metaprogramming to joe coder. :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m Fare: computer science degree courses at universities[0m
07:30pm
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m i have been browsing yr fortune cookie files, and i have a question about this quote -[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m "The problem with modern politics is that too many people are confusing the concept of free market with the corporate interest of traders, whereas nothing could be as foreign to free market as any corporate interest."[0m
[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m Fare: hows kluge coming?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m what is the difference between 'free market' and 'corporate interest'? i don't understand your definitions of the terms, i think[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m hcf: I'm back to writing the assembler[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m I got my asm syntax settled; gonna specify it;[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m washort: free market is freedom for everyone. corporate interest wants freedom for the particular corporation, not for the rest of the world[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m unless it is long-term enough to take into account higher-order issues[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m Fare: ah. so 'corporate interest' is desire for special treatment of that corporation by the gov't.[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m yes[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m mercantilism[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m OK. good point :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m Hello washort ;-)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m billh: what's up?[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m Nothing, just arguing about the same BS that I was last night. ;-)[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37mhcf[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0mLeaving[1;30m)[0m
[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m ...on #gnome, you were there, right ?[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [1;36mhcf [1;30m[[0;36mnef@207-172-225-116.s116.tnt1.pld.me.dialup.rcn.com[1;30m][0m has joined #tunes[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m Fare: i'm a Bastiat fan, too. Found myself recommending )The Law_ to a guy on #debian last night after he mentioned how great it would be to abolish public property :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m bastiat.org and bastiat.net would appreciate help[0m
[1;30m* [1;33mFare/#Tunes [0mgotta go 3053[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m hmm. interesting[0m
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m interesting?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m haven;t looked at those sites much. thanks[0m
07:40pm
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[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [1;36mlar1 [1;30m[[0;36mlarman@adsl-63-203-73-43.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net[1;30m][0m has joined #tunes[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [1;36mwashort [1;30m[[0;36mwashort@d140.narrowgate.net[1;30m][0m has joined #tunes[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37mbillh[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0m[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c16 for Windows CE today![1;30m)[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [1;36mTril [1;30m[[0;36mdem@bespin.dhs.org[1;30m][0m has joined #TUNES[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mmode[1;30m/[0;36m#tunes [1;30m[[1;37m+o Tril[1;30m][0m by [1;37mChanServ[0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m re all... [0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m lists are up[0m
09:50pm
[1;30m* [1;33mFare/#Tunes [0mgoto 3053[0m
[1;34m<[1;33mTril[1;34m>[0m tunes-all is almost fixed..[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m Fare: 3053?[0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m washort: it's his secret code try to figure it out[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m ah.[0m
10:00pm
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m its like 1337 sp34k, only as applied to fare[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m fore?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m 3453 i could see, *sorta*[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m err[0m
[1;30m* [1;33mwashort/#tunes [0mshakes his head[0m
[1;30m* [1;33mTril/#TUNES [0mwhispers to abi, I don't think he figured it out[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m Tril: no joke ;)[0m
[1;34m<[0mTril[1;34m>[0m washort: convert it into hex[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m oh, heh :)[0m
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10:20pm
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37mTril[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0m[BX] That's Miss BitchX to you[1;30m)[0m
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IRC log ended Fri Jun 16 00:00:01 2000
IRC log ended Fri Jun 16 00:00:01 2000